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Lobbying is not synonymous with corruption. And the EU, due to its origins as most powerful regulatory actor for Europe is heavily lobbied, no question. And the

Lobbying is not synonymous with corruption. And the EU, due to its origins as most powerful regulatory actor for Europe is heavily lobbied, no question. And the Commission even more, since it has the power of agenda setting. This is not always a bad thing, you need the industry as source of technical knowledge. I would say that most things we perceive as stupid are more or less proposals where the lobbying is unbalanced and one actor has to much influence. In this case the copyright defending industry. It is now up to the European Parliament to scrutinize this...

calgoo 9y ago
Maybe not corruption, but i would say that lobbying is legalized bribing. We can discuss if its good or bad, but i do not believe that its healthy for us the people as it pushes leaders to follow corporate policies instead of public policies.
- IAmEveryone 9y ago
  There is no bribery. No money changes hands. Not even “campaign donations”, which is the US term for bribery. Maybe it’s unfair that industry is better able to organize and make their case. But it’s not corruption, and not bribery. Plenty of consumer-advocacy groups are also active in lobbying. Hell, this article by github is lobbying as well.
  - timrichard 9y ago
    Going back a bit, perhaps like the huge political encouragement to go Diesel, which - by amazing coincidence - suited the sunk research costs of the hard-lobbying French and German car manufacturers? A pretty serious outcome for public health, but at least no money overtly changed hands.
- untog 9y ago
  Lobbying makes sense, in theory. If Company X would create 10 new factories if tax regulation Y were changed, local politicians should be aware of that. The big increase in jobs would almost definitely be beneficial to their constituents, provided the tax changes are not disproportionately detrimental. I'm not saying that's how 90% of lobbying works in politics today, but the practise does have a place.
lucideer 9y ago
> Lobbying is not synonymous with corruption. I don't understand how this statement is in any way true? Corruption is generally considered illegal and lobbying is not; the dictionary definition of corruption doesn't require it to be illicit though, so by that definition it would include lobbying. > you need the industry as source of technical knowledge There is a world of difference between seeking out/commissioning technical input from industry on a subject and the industry spending significant sums of money on actively trying to bring their claimed technical knowledge to you unsolicited.
- antientropic 9y ago
  And the dictionary definition of lobbying is "to conduct activities aimed at influencing public officials and especially members of a legislative body on legislation" (Webster). If I send an email to my MEP to ask them to block the proposed filtering requirement, I'm engaged in lobbying. In fact, this GitHub blog post is a form of lobbying, since it explicitly asks readers to contact EU policymakers. How is that corruption? It isn't - lobbying is free speech and an essential part of the democratic process.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    > lobbying is free speech and an essential part of the democratic process. It is, but then by your own argument it isn't a way to gauge industry expertise. Because anyone can lobby (so expertise isn't a factor -- and the politician isn't in a position to assess the expertise of a particular lobbyist), and those with more time and money can lobby more than anyone else. This is part of what makes it a problem, and makes people connect it with corruption -- because the only people who can effectively engage in corruption are the same people who can effectively engage in lobbying (those with large troves of cash).
  - roselan 9y ago
    It would be if it was public, but most of it isnheld behind closed doors.

calgoo 9y ago

Maybe not corruption, but i would say that lobbying is legalized bribing. We can discuss if its good or bad, but i do not believe that its healthy for us the people as it pushes leaders to follow corporate policies instead of public policies.

IAmEveryone 9y ago
There is no bribery. No money changes hands. Not even “campaign donations”, which is the US term for bribery. Maybe it’s unfair that industry is better able to organize and make their case. But it’s not corruption, and not bribery. Plenty of consumer-advocacy groups are also active in lobbying. Hell, this article by github is lobbying as well.
- timrichard 9y ago
  Going back a bit, perhaps like the huge political encouragement to go Diesel, which - by amazing coincidence - suited the sunk research costs of the hard-lobbying French and German car manufacturers? A pretty serious outcome for public health, but at least no money overtly changed hands.
untog 9y ago
Lobbying makes sense, in theory. If Company X would create 10 new factories if tax regulation Y were changed, local politicians should be aware of that. The big increase in jobs would almost definitely be beneficial to their constituents, provided the tax changes are not disproportionately detrimental. I'm not saying that's how 90% of lobbying works in politics today, but the practise does have a place.

lucideer 9y ago

> Lobbying is not synonymous with corruption. I don't understand how this statement is in any way true? Corruption is generally considered illegal and lobbying is not; the dictionary definition of corruption doesn't require it to be illicit though, so by that definition it would include lobbying. > you need the industry as source of technical knowledge There is a world of difference between seeking out/commissioning technical input from industry on a subject and the industry spending significant sums of money on actively trying to bring their claimed technical knowledge to you unsolicited.

antientropic 9y ago
And the dictionary definition of lobbying is "to conduct activities aimed at influencing public officials and especially members of a legislative body on legislation" (Webster). If I send an email to my MEP to ask them to block the proposed filtering requirement, I'm engaged in lobbying. In fact, this GitHub blog post is a form of lobbying, since it explicitly asks readers to contact EU policymakers. How is that corruption? It isn't - lobbying is free speech and an essential part of the democratic process.
- cyphar 9y ago
  > lobbying is free speech and an essential part of the democratic process. It is, but then by your own argument it isn't a way to gauge industry expertise. Because anyone can lobby (so expertise isn't a factor -- and the politician isn't in a position to assess the expertise of a particular lobbyist), and those with more time and money can lobby more than anyone else. This is part of what makes it a problem, and makes people connect it with corruption -- because the only people who can effectively engage in corruption are the same people who can effectively engage in lobbying (those with large troves of cash).
- roselan 9y ago
  It would be if it was public, but most of it isnheld behind closed doors.