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If you want capitalism to work, you need some kind of "homo economicus" that is able to look for their own selfinterest. If what you have is companies powered

by kartan 9y ago

If you want capitalism to work, you need some kind of "homo economicus" that is able to look for their own selfinterest. If what you have is companies powered by complex financial systems and artificial intelligence help while consumers are not able to get a discount right, you are going to end with all money in one side of the table with the other empty handed. This is another reason to improve our education systems. We need to function in an increasing complex society and that requires an incresing education quality with more resources, better methologies and more time dedicated to build knowledge and less to build national identity. (To memorize the list of presidents is not as an useful skill as it used to be, I guess).

tysonzni 9y ago
what you have is companies powered by complex financial systems and artificial intelligence help while consumers are not able to get a discount right Yeah agreed. Perhaps products (chatbots, voice?) that simply tell people what to do can partially solve for this. In many cases however, people have self-interests based on vastly different values (think relationship or hobby), and their instincts are good enough at approximating what they want. And while personal finance is tricky for many folks, not every decision is like personal finance which has a easily defined value function like calculating compound interest or choosing discounts. So my view is people are usually right!
- pjc50 9y ago
  "Alexa thinks you should apply for a personal loan through Amazon Finance" Yeah, no conflict of interest there
  - undreren 9y ago
    Capitalism is great for the many when most business are small and there's plenty of competition. Capitalism is great for the few in more or less all other scenarios. We live in one of the others, I'm afraid.
shaki-dora 9y ago
homo economicus as an idea only became popular when economists noticed that it doesn’t exist. In this context, you are probably right: the skills this study tested are probably something we need people to have. But zoom out a bit and it’s probably a lost case, and ethically dubious, to get people to conform to an ideal only to make a system work that is supposed to serve them. Capitalism is a tool. It’s the best we currently have. But it’s not a moral philosophy or an end in itself.
golergka 9y ago
> If you want capitalism to work, you need some kind of "homo economicus" that is able to look for their own selfinterest. Capitalism works just fine. There're plenty of mechanics that punish people for their own stupidity.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  The theoretical support for why capitalism is a good system, assumes people aren't stupid and only make trades and decisions that are rational and good for them though. Arguing that you're going to take advantage of the weak, the old, the distracted, the powerless and the terrified may be a refreshingly open take on capitalism, but it's not what it's sold on.
  - golergka 9y ago
    > Arguing that you're going to take advantage of the weak, the old, the distracted, the powerless and the terrified may be a refreshingly open take on capitalism, but it's not what it's sold on. The fact that your strength, youth, concentration and wit will give you an advantage over others is exactly why capitalism is fair and awesome.
    - gowld 9y ago
      Talk like that is how communist revolutions are triggered.
    - skummetmaelk 9y ago
      Well aren't you just full of yourself.
      - golergka 9y ago
        Myself? Not particularly, no. I am not particularly young, regularly suffer from depression and don't have a lot of ambition anyway. I would be, personally, far better off with socialist system. Which doesn't change the fact that it is based on immoral grounds which repulse me.
maxerickson 9y ago
Don't corporations more or less fill the role of homo economicus? I mean, that's not necessarily great for homo sapiens, but there you go.
YorkianTones 9y ago
I think capitalism is much simpler: capital begets capital. Those who have capital will accumulate more capital, almost infinitely, until the capital/income ratio reaches an equilibrium who knows how high (in the absence of major corrections like wars and hyper inflation). Add inherited wealth and low taxes. Capitalism's winners are those who already have capital. Thomas Pickety's book "Capital in the 21st Century" cogently illustrates this using massive tax return based data sets.
java_script 9y ago
This is capitalism working. Not from the viewpoint of the academic justifiers of capitalism, but the from the viewpoint of people that have an actual vested interest in capitalism (aka the ones whose opinion actually matters and the ones who are the reason why we have this system in the first place).

by kartan 9y ago

tysonzni 9y ago

what you have is companies powered by complex financial systems and artificial intelligence help while consumers are not able to get a discount right Yeah agreed. Perhaps products (chatbots, voice?) that simply tell people what to do can partially solve for this. In many cases however, people have self-interests based on vastly different values (think relationship or hobby), and their instincts are good enough at approximating what they want. And while personal finance is tricky for many folks, not every decision is like personal finance which has a easily defined value function like calculating compound interest or choosing discounts. So my view is people are usually right!

pjc50 9y ago
"Alexa thinks you should apply for a personal loan through Amazon Finance" Yeah, no conflict of interest there
- undreren 9y ago
  Capitalism is great for the many when most business are small and there's plenty of competition. Capitalism is great for the few in more or less all other scenarios. We live in one of the others, I'm afraid.

shaki-dora 9y ago

homo economicus as an idea only became popular when economists noticed that it doesn’t exist. In this context, you are probably right: the skills this study tested are probably something we need people to have. But zoom out a bit and it’s probably a lost case, and ethically dubious, to get people to conform to an ideal only to make a system work that is supposed to serve them. Capitalism is a tool. It’s the best we currently have. But it’s not a moral philosophy or an end in itself.

golergka 9y ago

> If you want capitalism to work, you need some kind of "homo economicus" that is able to look for their own selfinterest. Capitalism works just fine. There're plenty of mechanics that punish people for their own stupidity.

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
The theoretical support for why capitalism is a good system, assumes people aren't stupid and only make trades and decisions that are rational and good for them though. Arguing that you're going to take advantage of the weak, the old, the distracted, the powerless and the terrified may be a refreshingly open take on capitalism, but it's not what it's sold on.
- golergka 9y ago
  > Arguing that you're going to take advantage of the weak, the old, the distracted, the powerless and the terrified may be a refreshingly open take on capitalism, but it's not what it's sold on. The fact that your strength, youth, concentration and wit will give you an advantage over others is exactly why capitalism is fair and awesome.
  - gowld 9y ago
    Talk like that is how communist revolutions are triggered.
  - skummetmaelk 9y ago
    Well aren't you just full of yourself.
    - golergka 9y ago
      Myself? Not particularly, no. I am not particularly young, regularly suffer from depression and don't have a lot of ambition anyway. I would be, personally, far better off with socialist system. Which doesn't change the fact that it is based on immoral grounds which repulse me.

maxerickson 9y ago

Don't corporations more or less fill the role of homo economicus? I mean, that's not necessarily great for homo sapiens, but there you go.

YorkianTones 9y ago

I think capitalism is much simpler: capital begets capital. Those who have capital will accumulate more capital, almost infinitely, until the capital/income ratio reaches an equilibrium who knows how high (in the absence of major corrections like wars and hyper inflation). Add inherited wealth and low taxes. Capitalism's winners are those who already have capital. Thomas Pickety's book "Capital in the 21st Century" cogently illustrates this using massive tax return based data sets.

java_script 9y ago

This is capitalism working. Not from the viewpoint of the academic justifiers of capitalism, but the from the viewpoint of people that have an actual vested interest in capitalism (aka the ones whose opinion actually matters and the ones who are the reason why we have this system in the first place).