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How come sails aren't making a comeback? Seems like an ideal complement to electric ships. Use the wind to recharge the batteries using generators or to propel

How come sails aren't making a comeback? Seems like an ideal complement to electric ships. Use the wind to recharge the batteries using generators or to propel the ship forward. When there is no wind, run on the energy stored in the batteries.

WhompingWindows 9y ago
Sails don't collect nearly enough energy to move a ferry which is capable of moving hundreds of people and over 100 cars. What do you mean by recharging batteries using generators and using wind? If you mean turbines, keep in mind most turbines are hundreds of feet tall and their blades are extremely long. Overall, wind turbine technology is far, far too large for ships to utilize.
jalayir 9y ago
The decks are stacked up with containers. No room for sails
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Kinda. I recall reading about one suggestion for using high altitude "kites", and i could have sworn i have also seen one where the sails would be more similar to what you find on a Junk. In both instances the operations would be largely computer controlled, and reserved for the open seas.
CodeCube 9y ago
This is in the works ... not to recharge the batteries, but literally as an assist to the existing engines: https://www.iims.org.uk/quadriga-set-become-worlds-biggest-sailing-cargo-ship/ https://www.iims.org.uk/quadriga-set-become-worlds-biggest-s... edit: I can't find it offhand, but remember also seeing a video of a startup in SF, that's experimenting with an innovative sail system for the purpose of outfitting on ferries. These sails look more like vertical wings than the usual sail (which on many points of sail is actually a vertical wing) ... and the "flight controller" would basically trim them via rotation to the ideal position when they can eke out any knots to help them preserve diesel. And if they get caught in a squall, they simple head the sails into the wind to reduce windage. So it should be a very safe system to reduce the ferry system's usage of fossil fuels. Looked like a really interesting idea.
- dougmany 9y ago
  you are describing the sailrocket. The designer intended to outfit larger ships with the technology. http://sailrocket.com/ http://sailrocket.com/
  - googlryas 9y ago
    Where does the funding come from for something like this?
  - CodeCube 9y ago
    That is extremely cool, but no, it's not the one I was thinking of ... this one was explicitly targeting the application of ferries in SF bay.
MrUnderhill 9y ago
Some interesting responses and pictures in this Quora question: https://www.quora.com/Why-don%E2%80%99t-modern-civilian-cargo-ships-also-use-sails-in-addition-to-engine-power-to-reduce-fuel-consumption https://www.quora.com/Why-don%E2%80%99t-modern-civilian-carg...
- jeffreyrogers 9y ago
  The kite pulling the ship is cool. Not sure how useful that is in practice though.
louithethrid 9y ago
As Addition they do: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261913005928 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626191... Unrelated to norways ferrys - but for ocean traffic- is it energetically more feasable to fly a drift anchor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_anchor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_anchor ahead of the ship with a drone- and then wind the ship forwards against this "relative" resting position?
matt_the_bass 9y ago
Jacque Cousteau tried this on his 2nd boat. They looked like two giant missle silos. NB i was on board coming around the tip of Manhattan soon after 9/11. US coast guard came up on us pretty quick. They thought they were misled too!

WhompingWindows 9y ago

Sails don't collect nearly enough energy to move a ferry which is capable of moving hundreds of people and over 100 cars. What do you mean by recharging batteries using generators and using wind? If you mean turbines, keep in mind most turbines are hundreds of feet tall and their blades are extremely long. Overall, wind turbine technology is far, far too large for ships to utilize.

jalayir 9y ago

The decks are stacked up with containers. No room for sails

digi_owl 9y ago
Kinda. I recall reading about one suggestion for using high altitude "kites", and i could have sworn i have also seen one where the sails would be more similar to what you find on a Junk. In both instances the operations would be largely computer controlled, and reserved for the open seas.

CodeCube 9y ago

This is in the works ... not to recharge the batteries, but literally as an assist to the existing engines: https://www.iims.org.uk/quadriga-set-become-worlds-biggest-sailing-cargo-ship/ https://www.iims.org.uk/quadriga-set-become-worlds-biggest-s... edit: I can't find it offhand, but remember also seeing a video of a startup in SF, that's experimenting with an innovative sail system for the purpose of outfitting on ferries. These sails look more like vertical wings than the usual sail (which on many points of sail is actually a vertical wing) ... and the "flight controller" would basically trim them via rotation to the ideal position when they can eke out any knots to help them preserve diesel. And if they get caught in a squall, they simple head the sails into the wind to reduce windage. So it should be a very safe system to reduce the ferry system's usage of fossil fuels. Looked like a really interesting idea.

dougmany 9y ago
you are describing the sailrocket. The designer intended to outfit larger ships with the technology. http://sailrocket.com/ http://sailrocket.com/
- googlryas 9y ago
  Where does the funding come from for something like this?
- CodeCube 9y ago
  That is extremely cool, but no, it's not the one I was thinking of ... this one was explicitly targeting the application of ferries in SF bay.

MrUnderhill 9y ago

Some interesting responses and pictures in this Quora question: https://www.quora.com/Why-don%E2%80%99t-modern-civilian-cargo-ships-also-use-sails-in-addition-to-engine-power-to-reduce-fuel-consumption https://www.quora.com/Why-don%E2%80%99t-modern-civilian-carg...

jeffreyrogers 9y ago
The kite pulling the ship is cool. Not sure how useful that is in practice though.

louithethrid 9y ago

As Addition they do: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261913005928 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626191... Unrelated to norways ferrys - but for ocean traffic- is it energetically more feasable to fly a drift anchor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_anchor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_anchor ahead of the ship with a drone- and then wind the ship forwards against this "relative" resting position?

matt_the_bass 9y ago

Jacque Cousteau tried this on his 2nd boat. They looked like two giant missle silos. NB i was on board coming around the tip of Manhattan soon after 9/11. US coast guard came up on us pretty quick. They thought they were misled too!