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I was at a dinner recently where a grandmother was discussing her granddaughter. The grandmother was discussing her because it is something they worry about. Sh

I was at a dinner recently where a grandmother was discussing her granddaughter. The grandmother was discussing her because it is something they worry about. She's beautiful, smart, and a sociopath. They try to find alternative schooling for her but she keeps on getting kicked out. Some anecdotes: When the granddaughter injured her foot and was unable to do the balance beam at the gymnastics gym, her grandmother saw her work out on the pull up bar and do thirty pull-ups in a row. The grandmother came downstairs one afternoon when the granddaughter and her brother and her parents were staying in their home. Right near, one of the outlets there was a fresh hole kicked in the drywall. The granddaughter said "Yes, I kicked the wall but I don't know where that hole came from". The granddaughter was in the car with her parents and said something shocking that made everyone upset (it wasn't specified). She then got out of the car and started pummeling the hood.

RobertRoberts 9y ago
I can't possibly know for any certainty, but is it possible this girl was abused? I know first hand normal and reasonable children will go crazy (simplified description) after trauma. And it doesn't just go away after time, some effects stick around forever or until they are faced and overcome. And even then it's hard to behave normally. (ie, massive amounts of anger and frustration but no way to relieve the pain) It may do a great disservice to someone who is really suffering to get the label sociopath or psychopath undeservedly. But I also know there are people (I personally have dealt with) that just want to destroy you, and hate everyone...
- truculation 9y ago
  My guess is a psychopath is somebody has gone through mental anguish in youth and has overcome it with the result that he can't be shamed by others any more than a hardened soldier can be frightened of a wasp. That mental anguish might have been the result of abuse but it might just be the product of an intelligent but mistaken understanding of life generally -- plenty of people are capable of mentally torturing themselves.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
    > My guess is a psychopath is somebody has gone through mental anguish in youth That's an interesting theory. How long have you been working in the field, how many psychopaths have you met, and what is the strongest evidence for your theory?
    - tomcatfish 9y ago
      Relax a little, the poster outright said it was a guess. They were just offering a POSSIBLE explanation based off of their personal views, no need to pull out your Empiricism 101 textbook.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
        My guess, actually, is that people who have done the work would not view this as a "possible explanation". It seems about as useful as speculating that "hey, maybe the earth is flat?" But you never know, that's why I asked, hoping that someone OP or otherwise who has experience in the field would comment. TFA is specifically taking about genetics and brain scans, which makes me curious as to how that would be reconciled with this "theory" about bad experiences, if indeed the OP was aware of the content of the article at all.
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    Is this girl a psychopath, or just traumatised though? The comment was made in the context of a story about psychopaths, so it seems to be intended implication that she is.
    - wallflower 9y ago
      The grandmother and grandfather have seemed to see her as a psychopath. She can do crazy things without emotional response, without warning.
      - RobertRoberts 9y ago
- wallflower 9y ago
  My impression is that the grandparents were a little scared of having their granddaughter visit. She is now in high school, if that was not clear.
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    I think that's a reasonable assessment of the comment, but to evaluate the girl's behavior as psychopathic (strongly implied by context?) seems unproven. What if she is just a spoiled brat?
- Pokepokalypse 9y ago
  sometimes, just being branded "sociopath" or "psychopath" is just another form of abuse or victim-blaming. The learned abusive-behavior, can also be how they relieve their frustration, and abusers themselves often started out as abuse victims. This is inheritable behavior; unrelated to genetics even.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
Most children who are different in some way get treated pretty badly for it. Their behavior is presumed to be malicious and the adults around them don't know effective coping mechanisms. The adults often put out the fire with gasoline a la the beatings shall continue until morale improves. The fit of rage at the end is not necessarily associated with sociopathy. That kind of lack of control is common with things like fetal alcohol syndrome and head injury syndromes. I raised a sociopath. He's 30 now. We're close and get along well. My other son is not a sociopath, but has a violent temper. Neither has a criminal record and I find articles like the one under discussion rather unsophisticated and annoying. My sons are okay in part because I never expected them to be born knowing things like "Lying is bad." One child went through a lying stage. The other did not. I successfully broke him of lying because I viewed it as "Wow, you dumb kid who has no idea how social stuff works" rather than "You evil badly behaved child doing bad things on purpose."
- testvox 9y ago
  Why don't you like the article then? It's all about how the author attributes his success to his upbringing. He suggests that identifying psychopathic behavior earlier would allow parents and caregivers to help promote good coping mechanisms.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    It's also very othering and very blamey. It labels the guy a sociopath and comes from an assumption that this is all downside, some kind of defect that he needs to work at compensating for. Surgeons typically lack empathy. It is what allows them to cut into people. I could never do that job. The guy is probably an excellent scientist because he's a sociopath. The article doesn't address that fact.
    - kerkeslager 9y ago
      > It's also very othering and very blamey. It labels the guy a sociopath and comes from an assumption that this is all downside, some kind of defect that he needs to work at compensating for. There's a lot of disparate things in these two sentences: 1. It's othering: so what? Everyone is unique and different, and any time you talk about those differences it's othering. If you view othering as a problem, then literally any conversation about differences between people is problematic. 2. Blamey? What is the article blaming him for, exactly? 3. I don't think the article assumes this is all downside. I also don't think you can ignore the fact that psychopathy has very serious downsides. 4. Psychopathy is absolutely something he needs to compensate for in order to be a prosocial member of society. The fact that he seems willing and able to compensate is amazing and admirable. > Surgeons typically lack empathy. It is what allows them to cut into people. I could never do that job. I'd love to see where you get your information that surgeons typically lack empathy. Maybe some do, but many don't and function just fine. I personally don't lack empathy, but I think I could cut someone open easily if it were to help them. I'm not a psychopath, I just have a strong sense of the difference between hurt and harm: I can hurt someone if it helps them rather than harming them. > The guy is probably an excellent scientist because he's a sociopath. The article doesn't address that fact. The article probably doesn't address that "fact" because there's very little to support a causal link.
runciblespoon 9y ago
> I was at a dinner recently where a grandmother was discussing her granddaughter .. She's beautiful, smart, and a sociopath .. My diagnosis: The granddaughter is being subjected to emotional abuse by one or more of her 'care givers' and acting out in this manner as she lacks the emotional maturity and verbal skills to express herself.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  This is an incredibly dangerous assumption to make and should not be done based on a few paragraphs of second-hand statements on the internet.
  - wavefunction 9y ago
    Is it more dangerous than labeling the girl a psychopath/sociopath even though the grandmother is just some ole biddy and not a trained expert?
    - Erlangolem 9y ago
      An expert would also know that children are not diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder anyway, and for good reasons. I’m guessing that granny isn’t familiar with conduct disorder, and even if she was, unable to distinguish it from more likely issues plaguing the kid. Children can be sociopathic, any parent knows this, but that doesn’t make them sociopaths. Children are not fully developed, and it’s dsngerous and unethical to casually label them with a personality disorder.
- astura 9y ago
  I also immediately jumped to this conclusion. I was emotionally (and physically) abused myself, so I believe I have some insight.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  I think your "diagnoses" (are you a medical professional?) of emotional abuse - along with the grandmother's diagnosis of sociopathy - are on very shaky ground. The girl may just have a temper. Many children outgrow this.
Terr_ 9y ago
I'm confused: How are any of those anecdotes related to sociopathic behavior? None of them seem relevant to how the granddaughter sees other people. Perhaps the grandmother it's mis-labeling what are otherwise anger/coping-issues?
- wallflower 9y ago
  I confused sociopath with psychopath. Her grandmother described her as beautiful and charming when she wants to be. But she has episodes where something sets her off and she acts as if she is a completely different person.
  - Pokepokalypse 9y ago
    Abuse theories aside, this is also consistent with borderline personality disorder. . . (and was a feature in my BPD daughter - who actually is a sweetie when she stays on her meds).
Simon_says 9y ago
30 pull-ups is way outside average for any woman, though it's achievable by the median woman with a lot of sweat and time and effort put in. But what on Earth does that have to do with sociopathy?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- wallflower 9y ago
  It is more about how strong the girl is, in the context of nonchalantly kicking a hole in dry wall. Quiet strength.
  - Simon_says 9y ago
    Kicking holes in drywall hardly takes any force at all.
wallflower 9y ago
Some clarifications. The grandmother said she was a psychopath. I confused the terms. The granddaughter can be very charming and sociable. While nothing was said about parental abuse, I do remember her saying the mother was so controlling from a very early age of their granddaughter. Whenever the grandparents visited, she would simply not allow them to take their granddaughter off by themselves, as she always insisted on coming along. I can imagine that was not the best for the granddaughter.

RobertRoberts 9y ago

I can't possibly know for any certainty, but is it possible this girl was abused? I know first hand normal and reasonable children will go crazy (simplified description) after trauma. And it doesn't just go away after time, some effects stick around forever or until they are faced and overcome. And even then it's hard to behave normally. (ie, massive amounts of anger and frustration but no way to relieve the pain) It may do a great disservice to someone who is really suffering to get the label sociopath or psychopath undeservedly. But I also know there are people (I personally have dealt with) that just want to destroy you, and hate everyone...

truculation 9y ago
My guess is a psychopath is somebody has gone through mental anguish in youth and has overcome it with the result that he can't be shamed by others any more than a hardened soldier can be frightened of a wasp. That mental anguish might have been the result of abuse but it might just be the product of an intelligent but mistaken understanding of life generally -- plenty of people are capable of mentally torturing themselves.
- SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
  > My guess is a psychopath is somebody has gone through mental anguish in youth That's an interesting theory. How long have you been working in the field, how many psychopaths have you met, and what is the strongest evidence for your theory?
  - tomcatfish 9y ago
    Relax a little, the poster outright said it was a guess. They were just offering a POSSIBLE explanation based off of their personal views, no need to pull out your Empiricism 101 textbook.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
      My guess, actually, is that people who have done the work would not view this as a "possible explanation". It seems about as useful as speculating that "hey, maybe the earth is flat?" But you never know, that's why I asked, hoping that someone OP or otherwise who has experience in the field would comment. TFA is specifically taking about genetics and brain scans, which makes me curious as to how that would be reconciled with this "theory" about bad experiences, if indeed the OP was aware of the content of the article at all.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  Is this girl a psychopath, or just traumatised though? The comment was made in the context of a story about psychopaths, so it seems to be intended implication that she is.
  - wallflower 9y ago
    The grandmother and grandfather have seemed to see her as a psychopath. She can do crazy things without emotional response, without warning.
    - RobertRoberts 9y ago
wallflower 9y ago
My impression is that the grandparents were a little scared of having their granddaughter visit. She is now in high school, if that was not clear.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  I think that's a reasonable assessment of the comment, but to evaluate the girl's behavior as psychopathic (strongly implied by context?) seems unproven. What if she is just a spoiled brat?
Pokepokalypse 9y ago
sometimes, just being branded "sociopath" or "psychopath" is just another form of abuse or victim-blaming. The learned abusive-behavior, can also be how they relieve their frustration, and abusers themselves often started out as abuse victims. This is inheritable behavior; unrelated to genetics even.

DoreenMichele 9y ago

Most children who are different in some way get treated pretty badly for it. Their behavior is presumed to be malicious and the adults around them don't know effective coping mechanisms. The adults often put out the fire with gasoline a la the beatings shall continue until morale improves. The fit of rage at the end is not necessarily associated with sociopathy. That kind of lack of control is common with things like fetal alcohol syndrome and head injury syndromes. I raised a sociopath. He's 30 now. We're close and get along well. My other son is not a sociopath, but has a violent temper. Neither has a criminal record and I find articles like the one under discussion rather unsophisticated and annoying. My sons are okay in part because I never expected them to be born knowing things like "Lying is bad." One child went through a lying stage. The other did not. I successfully broke him of lying because I viewed it as "Wow, you dumb kid who has no idea how social stuff works" rather than "You evil badly behaved child doing bad things on purpose."

testvox 9y ago
Why don't you like the article then? It's all about how the author attributes his success to his upbringing. He suggests that identifying psychopathic behavior earlier would allow parents and caregivers to help promote good coping mechanisms.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  It's also very othering and very blamey. It labels the guy a sociopath and comes from an assumption that this is all downside, some kind of defect that he needs to work at compensating for. Surgeons typically lack empathy. It is what allows them to cut into people. I could never do that job. The guy is probably an excellent scientist because he's a sociopath. The article doesn't address that fact.
  - kerkeslager 9y ago
    > It's also very othering and very blamey. It labels the guy a sociopath and comes from an assumption that this is all downside, some kind of defect that he needs to work at compensating for. There's a lot of disparate things in these two sentences: 1. It's othering: so what? Everyone is unique and different, and any time you talk about those differences it's othering. If you view othering as a problem, then literally any conversation about differences between people is problematic. 2. Blamey? What is the article blaming him for, exactly? 3. I don't think the article assumes this is all downside. I also don't think you can ignore the fact that psychopathy has very serious downsides. 4. Psychopathy is absolutely something he needs to compensate for in order to be a prosocial member of society. The fact that he seems willing and able to compensate is amazing and admirable. > Surgeons typically lack empathy. It is what allows them to cut into people. I could never do that job. I'd love to see where you get your information that surgeons typically lack empathy. Maybe some do, but many don't and function just fine. I personally don't lack empathy, but I think I could cut someone open easily if it were to help them. I'm not a psychopath, I just have a strong sense of the difference between hurt and harm: I can hurt someone if it helps them rather than harming them. > The guy is probably an excellent scientist because he's a sociopath. The article doesn't address that fact. The article probably doesn't address that "fact" because there's very little to support a causal link.

runciblespoon 9y ago

> I was at a dinner recently where a grandmother was discussing her granddaughter .. She's beautiful, smart, and a sociopath .. My diagnosis: The granddaughter is being subjected to emotional abuse by one or more of her 'care givers' and acting out in this manner as she lacks the emotional maturity and verbal skills to express herself.

Cyberdog 9y ago
This is an incredibly dangerous assumption to make and should not be done based on a few paragraphs of second-hand statements on the internet.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  Is it more dangerous than labeling the girl a psychopath/sociopath even though the grandmother is just some ole biddy and not a trained expert?
  - Erlangolem 9y ago
    An expert would also know that children are not diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder anyway, and for good reasons. I’m guessing that granny isn’t familiar with conduct disorder, and even if she was, unable to distinguish it from more likely issues plaguing the kid. Children can be sociopathic, any parent knows this, but that doesn’t make them sociopaths. Children are not fully developed, and it’s dsngerous and unethical to casually label them with a personality disorder.
astura 9y ago
I also immediately jumped to this conclusion. I was emotionally (and physically) abused myself, so I believe I have some insight.
jnbiche 9y ago
I think your "diagnoses" (are you a medical professional?) of emotional abuse - along with the grandmother's diagnosis of sociopathy - are on very shaky ground. The girl may just have a temper. Many children outgrow this.

Terr_ 9y ago

I'm confused: How are any of those anecdotes related to sociopathic behavior? None of them seem relevant to how the granddaughter sees other people. Perhaps the grandmother it's mis-labeling what are otherwise anger/coping-issues?

wallflower 9y ago
I confused sociopath with psychopath. Her grandmother described her as beautiful and charming when she wants to be. But she has episodes where something sets her off and she acts as if she is a completely different person.
- Pokepokalypse 9y ago
  Abuse theories aside, this is also consistent with borderline personality disorder. . . (and was a feature in my BPD daughter - who actually is a sweetie when she stays on her meds).

Simon_says 9y ago

30 pull-ups is way outside average for any woman, though it's achievable by the median woman with a lot of sweat and time and effort put in. But what on Earth does that have to do with sociopathy?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
wallflower 9y ago
It is more about how strong the girl is, in the context of nonchalantly kicking a hole in dry wall. Quiet strength.
- Simon_says 9y ago
  Kicking holes in drywall hardly takes any force at all.

wallflower 9y ago

Some clarifications. The grandmother said she was a psychopath. I confused the terms. The granddaughter can be very charming and sociable. While nothing was said about parental abuse, I do remember her saying the mother was so controlling from a very early age of their granddaughter. Whenever the grandparents visited, she would simply not allow them to take their granddaughter off by themselves, as she always insisted on coming along. I can imagine that was not the best for the granddaughter.