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Suing Equifax in Small Claims Court
- Slansitartop 9y agoHas anyone done this recently? Has Equifax upped their small claims court game?
- drwl 9y agoNot a lawyer and just spent the past hour reading into this. It depends on what state you're in — in California, defendants of small claims can appeal in the superior court (with lawyers) in what is called "de novo". r/legaladvice says it is not recommended to go to small claims court.
- eli 9y agoFantastic bit of earned media for his startup.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- dwighttk 9y agoBased on the headline, I would have liked to hear about more than 1 person and a slight mention of a few others.
- rando444 9y agoOn the other side of the coin, perhaps this will encourage others to follow suit.
- ChrisRR 9y agoThe title would've been just as descriptive without "and it's totally brilliant"
- sctb 9y agoAgreed, we've updated the headline here.
- huebnerob 9y agoAs a counterargument, here's a reddit thread about CA small claims case that (possibly?) got appealed to a higher court: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_equifax_and_won_they_filed_an_appeal_whats/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7h9tn2/i_sued_... I haven't parsed through the updates so I don't know what the current status is, but I remember the consensus being that this guy was fucked if Equifax actually was able to drag this into a 'real' court. So, YMMV.
- zitterbewegung 9y agoAlso to note just because it may work for one or two times if they start to see a possibility of a large impending loss they can allocate resources to fight small claims cases also.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoI don't mind spending hundreds or thousands of dollars in order to force Equifax to do the same to defend themselves. If someone represents me, I'm happy for them to take all of the proceeds if a judgement is found in my favor, as long as Equifax loses.
- yborg 9y agoThere is no way they win that if enough people do it. It's so much overhead that the small plaintiff is at a substantial cost-benefit advantage even if they send fresh grad associates by the busload to small claims courts around the country. The Zerg Rush attack might be the best way to tackle this problem ... until of course Equifax gets Congress to pass some kind of legislation to make it impossible to bring Equifax-related suits in Small Claims court.
- onetimemanytime 9y agoI doubt "enough" people will do it. It takes some time to prepare and to go to court. Let's say that 5000 people do it,(IMO, not realistic unless organized by someone): 5,000 X $10,000 in damages = $50 million. Say another $20m for My Cousin Vinny Attorney at Law used to dealing with such cases, and it's not a company killing expense. That's assuming that all win. You could say that word spreads, "he won $10k so you should file too," but I doubt it.
- lr4444lr 9y agoThis will hopefully spur the company to lobby congress for government identification that is NOT the social security number, and in keeping with modern standards of information security, so that they can limit damages.
- cortesoft 9y agoNah, they will just lobby congress to outlaw suing them.
- RightMillennial 9y agoIt's sad, but likely true. Binding arbitration anyone?
- guntars 9y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong, but you don't have a contract with Equifax so there's no way binding arbitration can apply.
- pixl97 9y ago"By putting information on this website you are agreeing to legal arbitration with Equifax", heh I could see this in a TOS somewhere. Also, more worryingly, there is a good chance that you've signed a contract somewhere that says that in all the paperwork one does in their life.
- dawnerd 9y agoWorked for the tobacco companies.
- mulmen 9y agoYes that shining bastion of modern information security practices, Equifax. /s
- jsgo 9y ago
- 1024core 9y ago> In the process, his company started funding other people's small claims suits against Equifax, too. (Legalist pays lawyers in plaintiff's suits on an hourly basis, and takes a contingency fee if the case is successful.) Wait: I thought the idea of small claims court was that you had to represent yourself, and no lawyers were allowed to represent you?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- drwl 9y agoLegalist funds other claims, hence they pay for lawyers. You're right though — no lawyers in small claims
- blisterpeanuts 9y agoYou don't have to represent yourself but in most states you do have to be present.
- dannygarcia 9y agoIANAL, but from what I understand in California, if a small claim is appealed a lawyer may represent on either side.
- astura 9y agoDepends on the state. In my state lawyers are not forbidden.
- nimbius 9y agosmall claims court may be dismissed by major corporations as inconvenient and worthy of quick settlement, however many may be mistaken in this judgement. Small claims court victories, if added up over time work as a sort of cancer that erodes at the foundation of the supremacy of tacit communal beliefs in an industry or corporate entity. These victories can be evidenced in "real" trials, and often have the overwhelming power to issue a damning indictment of the company at hand. What equifax is trying to avoid is a sizable majority of victories that would in turn erode the foundation of the "identify theft" myth that the blame lies with no one at best, or the customer at worst. Its why Equifax and other companies often issue an appeal to their loss in small claims court as the appeal process can include a lawyer. In the case of equifax theyre likely to throw their VP level legal team on a plane and show up with a top brass firm to contest your victory. Sure, it costs them in the millions to do this, but costly battles like these prevent losing the war.
- mrkstu 9y agoThe problem is that doesn't scale. If this spreads, it'll quickly grow beyond their ability to contain it.
- blisterpeanuts 9y agoIn my experience, articles that end with "...and It's Totally Brilliant. Here's Why" tend to be shallow clickbait, and this one pretty much meets that definition. Obviously, not all 143 million victims of the Equifax breach are going to prove damage. In fact, almost none of them can. Even if your identity is stolen, can you prove where the thief got your info? The best and most realistic action individuals can take is to freeze their accounts at the big three credit companies. If you need a new credit card or apartment lease, you can un-freeze it temporarily. Otherwise, turn it off; why should it just be available to anyone who wants it, from year to year?
- s73v3r_ 9y agoBut that costs money. Why on earth should I have to pay to ensure that these corporate leeches will actually protect my data?
- snomad 9y agoAll 143 millions are due 10-years of credit monitoring, which at today's rates is roughly $3,600.
- detaro 9y agoThe person in question here also didn't have their identity stolen and still managed to get money awarded, so it'd be interesting to see how courts would decide in more cases like that. Could have been lucky, could be a strategy that works - and since they are financing additional cases, I guess we'll get that data at some point. To quote the original post: Here is a breakdown of the damages I was awarded: - Cost of Credit monitoring (120 months at $30 per month) $3,600 - Ongoing emotional distress, anxiety, concerns, and harassment $1,800 - Punitive damages under 15 USC 1681 Section 616 for willful non-compliance with the requirements of the Fair Credit Reporting Act $2,500 - Court costs $90 -------------- - Total judgment: $7,990.
- mindslight 9y ago> The best and most realistic action individuals can take is to freeze their accounts at the big three credit companies Or you know, just don't give a shit. "Identity theft" is a nonsensical oxymoron meant to make you think you're responsible for others' gross incompetence. At this point, if an institution is defrauded because they relied on public identifiers for the purposes of authentication in 2018, then I don't really see how its really even my responsibility to help them sort their mess out. The practical legal action should be focused on libel when the fallout of such gross negligence is repeated as if it were factual. And the lofter goal should be aimed at shutting the private surveillance bureaus down, as their modus operandi is essentially a human rights violation.
- dang 9y agoDiscussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16217241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16217241 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556000 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556000.
- s73v3r_ 9y agoI truly hope this works, and that Equifax is forced to close down. They have repeatedly demonstrated they do not deserve to continue being a company.
- 0xfeba 9y agoThere was a post a while back about submitting your information and some company would file the paperwork for you. I, foolishly, submitted my information. I believe others did as well and I never heard anything of it. Anyone recall the link?
- kapauldo 9y agoThis is neat but legalist is just replacing one kind of scuzzy with a different kind of scuzzy.
- r-bryan 9y agoNot Equifax but here's a story about how another David once met his Goliath in Small Claims Court. I wish I could find an online citation to confirm the details :-( In the 1970's, financial conglomerate Transamerica owned a credit card brand, Diners Club I think. An ordinary citizen had a dispute with Diners Club and was getting nowhere. He convinced a small-claims judge to place a lien on the Transamerica building in S.F. That got their attention real quick because they needed clear title to the real estate for some finance shuffling.
- ceejayoz 9y agoIt happens every once in a while. Wells Fargo: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/patrick-rodgers-forecloses-on-wells-fargo_n_824765.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/patrick-rodgers-fo... BofA: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638 http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclos... Turns out it gets their attention pretty quick. > On June 3, Nyerges, two sheriff's deputies and a moving truck showed up at the local BofA branch. The deputies informed the manager that he could either pay the Nyerges' legal fees— $2,500—or the movers would start taking away the bank's furniture and cash. The manager, after conferring with his superiors, gave the deputies a check.
- caymanjim 9y agoThis story is gaining a lot of traction, and publications like Inc are picking up on it as a David-vs-Goliath tale. Some of them link to Christian Haigh's blog posts (https://blog.legalist.com/i-won-8-000-from-equifax-in-small-claims-court-heres-how-you-can-too-f0ce6925c079 https://blog.legalist.com/i-won-8-000-from-equifax-in-small-...). What seems to get lost in the secondary articles is that Christian Haigh works for Legalist, and the entire article, while I believe it to be true, is an advertisement for his legal services company to help you sue Equifax as well. This isn't David-vs-Goliath, this is someone well-versed in the law with the resource of a company behind him, taking on Equifax armed with knowledge and resources that the average consumer does not have. It may be possible to repeat his success on your own, but it's certainly not likely. He was prepared to respond to common legal tactics that Equifax's lawyer would easily defeat a normal plaintiff with. And again, this is all an advertisement for his legal services company, so I've got a bag of salt we can all share.
- rictic 9y agoTo take the same information and present it in a different way: this legal services company is able to win a lawsuit that an unassisted or naive litigant would lose. They make some money, the person who was harmed by Equifax gets some money, and Equifax is disincentivized to mishandle people's personal information. This is good, isn't it?
- caymanjim 9y agoEquifax may be terrible, punishing them may be good, this may be a good way to punish them. One might debate whether small claims court is the right venue, what the role of the government is, whether this is a civil or criminal matter, and more generally what the impact of litigation is. None of this is to say that I disagree. This is a feel-good story where the little man gets to stick it to the Big Evil Corporation. I just think it's disingenuous to present it as a story of what one man can do in the face of injustice, and then have a publication like Inc. repeat the story while leaving out important details about the plaintiff's qualifications and incentive.
- Mandatum 9y ago
- bencollier49 9y agoI wonder if this could be handled the same way as Payment Protection Insurance fraud in the UK - companies specifically set up to find complainants and litigate on their behalf in return for a cut.