4 ms·

Either the CEO is incompetent and didn't know about a huge failure of his organization or he's a criminal, either way the verdict of public opinion is not going

Either the CEO is incompetent and didn't know about a huge failure of his organization or he's a criminal, either way the verdict of public opinion is not going to be kind.

Jesus_Jones 9y ago
It's very unlikely that he didn't know about the security problems, that hadn't be released. I'd say about 99.9% chance that he knew. We know that it's very tempting for otherwise intelligent people to fall victim to this, like our favorite domestic lifestyle wallstreet-er CEO, Martha Stewart.
- TylerE 9y ago
  Stewart was done for obstruction and perjury, not insider trading.
  - spear 9y ago
    Not to pick on you because I see this response a lot, but that's really misleading. She was also indicted for insider trading and though that charge was thrown away by the judge, the SEC also filed a civil case against her for insider trading. She settled that one by paying $195,000 and agreeing not to serve as an officer of any public company for five years. It's not like the insider trading didn't cost her anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImClone_stock_trading_case#Repercussions_and_aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImClone_stock_trading_case#Rep...
- mulmen 9y ago
  Can you share the dataset you used to calculate the 99.9% probability? Do you have experience with other CEOs in this kind of situation? Do you have inside knowledge of Equifax? I'm not sure how anyone can be so certain in the absence of evidence. Indeed this is the reason we put the burden of proof on the accuser and assume innocence.
  - jonknee 9y ago
    Did you not read the press release? They have texts showing he was aware and knew it was bad. > On Friday, August 25, 2017, Ying texted a co-worker that the breach they were working on “Sounds bad. We may be the one breached.” The following Monday, Ying conducted web searches on the impact of Experian’s 2015 data breach on its stock price. Later that morning, Ying exercised all of his available stock options held at UBS Financial Services, resulting in him receiving 6,815 shares of Equifax stock, which he then sold.
    - nathan_long 9y ago
      That does look bad. However, it describes the CIO. You're responding to a conversation about the CEO. And again, innocent until proven guilty is a good principle, and we need to let the justice system do its work.
      - jonknee 9y ago
        Typo on my part, the discussion is about the CIO.
  - Jesus_Jones 9y ago
    I used my own experience working in a variety of companies including large corporations, and the way they sometimes told us information ahead of earnings and how cautious we needed to be about when we might sell something. I have never been more than a second level dev manager, but I can't imagine how this could happen by accident. So I had required training, cautions every quarter ahead of time, reminders when there was an open period, reminders about not talking to the press. This isn't rocket science. So someone who works on earnings announcements, knows the quarterly facts early, has experience with this just forgot or something? It's not credible.
- alasdair_ 9y ago
  Martha Stewart went to jail for lying to investigators, not for any other crime.
matchagaucho 9y ago
The (non-technical) CEO pushed for new products and an aggressive sales quota company culture. This is a common recipe for disaster when the actual product quality/security is no longer a core value. The CEOs in these environments honestly have no clue what an "outdated Struts patch" is... so it's difficult to hold them criminally responsible. I'm not excusing this behavior. In fact, quite the opposite. More indictments and congressional pressure on Equifax will hopefully persuade future CEOs to make IT security, data privacy, and consumer trust foundation product values.
- lovich 9y ago
  When you take charge of an organization, and reap the benefits from being in charge, you accept the responsibility as well. How could you not hold the CEO criminally responsible for this much damage just because they neglected to get informed on these topics or get expert opinions if they didn't have the ability to become informed. If that's the case every company should have a head "CEO" who knows nothing and just does what a shadow CEO tells him to do. Then no one would be responsible ever!
  - matchagaucho 9y ago
    But he did accept the responsibility. He's no longer CEO and forfeited his incentive compensation.
    - barrkel 9y ago
      That's not good enough. That's like letting bank robbers go just because they got caught and forfeited their gains. The punishment must exceed the monetary gains to account for the less than 100% probability of things like this getting caught.
      - YuriNiyazov 9y ago
        It does. Dudes like that really care about their careers, and his is undoubtedly over

Either the CEO is incompetent and didn't know about a huge failure of his organization or he's a criminal, either way the verdict of public opinion is not going to be kind.

Jesus_Jones 9y ago

It's very unlikely that he didn't know about the security problems, that hadn't be released. I'd say about 99.9% chance that he knew. We know that it's very tempting for otherwise intelligent people to fall victim to this, like our favorite domestic lifestyle wallstreet-er CEO, Martha Stewart.

TylerE 9y ago
Stewart was done for obstruction and perjury, not insider trading.
- spear 9y ago
  Not to pick on you because I see this response a lot, but that's really misleading. She was also indicted for insider trading and though that charge was thrown away by the judge, the SEC also filed a civil case against her for insider trading. She settled that one by paying $195,000 and agreeing not to serve as an officer of any public company for five years. It's not like the insider trading didn't cost her anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImClone_stock_trading_case#Repercussions_and_aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImClone_stock_trading_case#Rep...
mulmen 9y ago
Can you share the dataset you used to calculate the 99.9% probability? Do you have experience with other CEOs in this kind of situation? Do you have inside knowledge of Equifax? I'm not sure how anyone can be so certain in the absence of evidence. Indeed this is the reason we put the burden of proof on the accuser and assume innocence.
- jonknee 9y ago
  Did you not read the press release? They have texts showing he was aware and knew it was bad. > On Friday, August 25, 2017, Ying texted a co-worker that the breach they were working on “Sounds bad. We may be the one breached.” The following Monday, Ying conducted web searches on the impact of Experian’s 2015 data breach on its stock price. Later that morning, Ying exercised all of his available stock options held at UBS Financial Services, resulting in him receiving 6,815 shares of Equifax stock, which he then sold.
  - nathan_long 9y ago
    That does look bad. However, it describes the CIO. You're responding to a conversation about the CEO. And again, innocent until proven guilty is a good principle, and we need to let the justice system do its work.
    - jonknee 9y ago
      Typo on my part, the discussion is about the CIO.
- Jesus_Jones 9y ago
  I used my own experience working in a variety of companies including large corporations, and the way they sometimes told us information ahead of earnings and how cautious we needed to be about when we might sell something. I have never been more than a second level dev manager, but I can't imagine how this could happen by accident. So I had required training, cautions every quarter ahead of time, reminders when there was an open period, reminders about not talking to the press. This isn't rocket science. So someone who works on earnings announcements, knows the quarterly facts early, has experience with this just forgot or something? It's not credible.
alasdair_ 9y ago
Martha Stewart went to jail for lying to investigators, not for any other crime.

matchagaucho 9y ago

The (non-technical) CEO pushed for new products and an aggressive sales quota company culture. This is a common recipe for disaster when the actual product quality/security is no longer a core value. The CEOs in these environments honestly have no clue what an "outdated Struts patch" is... so it's difficult to hold them criminally responsible. I'm not excusing this behavior. In fact, quite the opposite. More indictments and congressional pressure on Equifax will hopefully persuade future CEOs to make IT security, data privacy, and consumer trust foundation product values.

lovich 9y ago
When you take charge of an organization, and reap the benefits from being in charge, you accept the responsibility as well. How could you not hold the CEO criminally responsible for this much damage just because they neglected to get informed on these topics or get expert opinions if they didn't have the ability to become informed. If that's the case every company should have a head "CEO" who knows nothing and just does what a shadow CEO tells him to do. Then no one would be responsible ever!
- matchagaucho 9y ago
  But he did accept the responsibility. He's no longer CEO and forfeited his incentive compensation.
  - barrkel 9y ago
    That's not good enough. That's like letting bank robbers go just because they got caught and forfeited their gains. The punishment must exceed the monetary gains to account for the less than 100% probability of things like this getting caught.
    - YuriNiyazov 9y ago
      It does. Dudes like that really care about their careers, and his is undoubtedly over