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Life as a Nonviolent Psychopath (2014)
- larrik 9y agoIs it normal for every paragraph to have a different font size? Or is that just me?
- titanomachy 9y agoYeah I see that as well, probably a consequence of their archiving process or something... (article is 2014)
- craftyguy 9y agoOr, it's what a nonviolent psychopath would to.
- donquichotte 9y agoI am not sure this can be considered nonviolent. On Mozilla, I recommend to use Reader Mode.
- jwilk 9y agoSometimes the font changes even within a single sentence.
- madman2890 9y agoI think only psychopaths can see that... :o
- chuckdries 9y agoHonestly, it looks like some chunks were pasted from Word and their CMS didn't handle cleaning it properly
- egypturnash 9y agoYeah, I'm getting it too. What the hell. Some digging around with Safari's inspector reveals a lot of inline CSS to change the font-size and line-height of text after the first couple hundred characters of every paragraph, with some paragraphs containing two <span>s with this CSS and no unmodified text. Very strange. Hooray for Reader Mode.
- BooneJS 9y agoCopy/paste formatted HTML into a CMS.
- latexr 9y agoNot only every paragraph, sometimes it changes in the middle of a word (search “And as I was”).
- eDISCO 9y agoPrevious discussion on HN about this article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7166207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7166207
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- 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago> He not only learned that few people were surprised at the outcome I wonder if anyone tried to tell him before he did the scan.
- Goronmon 9y agoI asked them why they didn’t tell me and they said, "We did tell you. We've all been telling you." I argued that they had called me "crazy," and they all said, "No. We said you're psychopathic."
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y agoIt's interesting that the brain scan is the thing that opened his mind, but no one else did even though they tried.
- n4r9 9y agoIndeed. I often feel like I don't fully accept something until I've arrived at it in my own way somehow. It's similar to how a test for understanding a subject is whether you can put it "into your own words". I wonder if a similar effect could account for his ignorance of others' opinion of him. Almost certainly compounded by psychopathic inclinations to manipulate those around you, but never be manipulated.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y agoThen writing a book probably makes it more acceptable in some sense.
- wizardforhire 9y agoTo his credit that's a true scientist. As far as evidence goes other people's opinions are low on the totem poll of acceptable evidence, but faced with overwhelming evidence he was forced to reexamine the anecdotal for correlation which he found and through his new lens was forced to accept. His response in writing his book and presenting his findings is the final step. I can only imagine given his condition how hard it was to accept the truth, but accept he did and the world is better place because of it.
- wallflower 9y agoI was at a dinner recently where a grandmother was discussing her granddaughter. The grandmother was discussing her because it is something they worry about. She's beautiful, smart, and a sociopath. They try to find alternative schooling for her but she keeps on getting kicked out. Some anecdotes: When the granddaughter injured her foot and was unable to do the balance beam at the gymnastics gym, her grandmother saw her work out on the pull up bar and do thirty pull-ups in a row. The grandmother came downstairs one afternoon when the granddaughter and her brother and her parents were staying in their home. Right near, one of the outlets there was a fresh hole kicked in the drywall. The granddaughter said "Yes, I kicked the wall but I don't know where that hole came from". The granddaughter was in the car with her parents and said something shocking that made everyone upset (it wasn't specified). She then got out of the car and started pummeling the hood.
- RobertRoberts 9y agoI can't possibly know for any certainty, but is it possible this girl was abused? I know first hand normal and reasonable children will go crazy (simplified description) after trauma. And it doesn't just go away after time, some effects stick around forever or until they are faced and overcome. And even then it's hard to behave normally. (ie, massive amounts of anger and frustration but no way to relieve the pain) It may do a great disservice to someone who is really suffering to get the label sociopath or psychopath undeservedly. But I also know there are people (I personally have dealt with) that just want to destroy you, and hate everyone...
- truculation 9y agoMy guess is a psychopath is somebody has gone through mental anguish in youth and has overcome it with the result that he can't be shamed by others any more than a hardened soldier can be frightened of a wasp. That mental anguish might have been the result of abuse but it might just be the product of an intelligent but mistaken understanding of life generally -- plenty of people are capable of mentally torturing themselves.
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- ataturk 9y agoThat article made my head hurt. I think modern life causes this behavior. The political realities of how we live drive people insane and that insanity manifests itself differently according to the individual. Some lash out, some withdraw. The first decent rebellion that gets going on the US and I'm there. I don't even really care how it turns out, I just hope to get a bullet or two into the right people.
- John_KZ 9y agoJust because you say you're a psychopath doesn't mean you are one. You'd expect a neuroscientist to be aware of the limitations of your ability to self-diagnose. My personal opinion is that he loves the attention he gets. He gets to play tough and loves it. He feels dangerous and special. It's an escape mechanism. He might even act like a sociopath on purpose, but he doesn't seem like one. He might be a narcissist. Or he might be just self-delusional. It's a sad situation regardless.
- jbob2000 9y agoWell, here's my take on this; A disease is only a disease if it causes you dis-ease. Some people howl and wail about a paper cut, others will continue through the day with a broken limb as if nothing happened. I am sure the same can be said for mental ailments; some people can't function with even the slightest sad thought, others can apparently become great scientists under the strongest psychopathy. In this guy's case - he clearly does feel some dis-ease about his body. Whether or not the medical community agrees doesn't really matter, we have no ability to measure the mind, so we have to go off of what people tell us. The biggest problem I see with this guy is that he's using the people around him as part of his therapy, whether or not they want to be a part of it.
- John_KZ 9y ago>we have no ability to measure the mind, so we have to go off of what people tell us. That's not true. We have no tools to study the mind like we study ballistics, with strict mathematical formalities, but we certainly can study other people's minds, based on what they say and do. And regarless, we don't have to take their word for it.
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- 77pt77 9y ago> My personal opinion is that he loves the attention he gets He readily admits he's quite narcissistic.
- nemo1618 9y ago(The late, great) Pieter Hintjens wrote a short book about psychopaths, which I found fascinating. It's available for free on his site: http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths
- psyc 9y agoWhenever I try to research this subject, I just give up for the vagueness, lack of consensus, and general lack of solid information. I'm sure there's some out there - I just can't find it on the Internet. In particular, I'm always frustrated about 'psychopaths' (empathy-lacking, narcissistic, manipulative) being wholly lumped in with violent predators (serial killers, who seem to get visceral gratification from hunting and physically destroying other humans).
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoThat's because the terms "Psychopathy" and "Sociopathy" are criminal legal terms or shorthand and not clinical terms. The clinical terms [1] are Dissocial Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder are most related, though many aspects of "psychopaths" can't be measured - for example how do accurately and repeatably measure "lack of empathy?" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_B_personality_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_B_personality_disorder...
- e_d_e_v 9y agoA Voigt-Kampff machine?
- 77pt77 9y ago> I'm sure there's some out there - I just can't find it on the Internet What makes you so sure? Given the history of these fields I would not be surprised either way.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoWhat's your interest in the subject? There's lots of good information, but you need some basic background information for context. It is hard to establish that because so much communication is rooted in weird attempts at signalling "I'm a good person who isn't guilty of what you are accusing me of!" The reality is that sociopaths have very high IQs and serial killers are typically small business owners, in part because it allows them freedom and control over their schedule that a full time employee typically lacks. But when I have tried to comment on that on HN in the past, it tends to not go over well because people feel I am saying "Businessmen are evil asshats inclined to be serial killers" which isn't what I am saying at all. Serial killers tend to have certain traits. But that doesn't mean having certain traits is some one way non refundable ticket to serial killer land. It's interesting to me how those traits predispose individuals towards certain paths, some positive and some not. But traits are not some Greek Tragedy style inescapable destiny. And that's a really hard thing to talk about.
- callesgg 9y agoWow, i think the story hear is: Psychopaths can be easily diagnosed thorough a brain scan. Or a more likely narrative: A person compared pictures and interpreted them wrong.
- bitL 9y agoCould it be the diagnosis is simply wrong, i.e. brain scans are interpreted incorrectly? We know that brain is quite elastic and after an injury another part of the brain can take the functionality of non-working part. Maybe his brain routed around damage from pre-natal stage?
- 77pt77 9y ago> We know that brain is quite elastic I'm assuming you mean plastic. This is what he says: > My bias is that even though I work in growth factors, plasticity, memory, and learning, I think the whole idea of plasticity in adults—or really after puberty—is so overblown.
- Pokepokalypse 9y agoBut he also said that his condition was somewhat overcome via "learned behavior". Depending on how you look at it, that's a layman's "plasticity". (the neuroscience term meaning something specific - the layman's term simply referring to the question of whether "people can change"). At the root of it is: does this person WANT to change? In TFA's case, he went from a state of either not being aware he had a problem, or not caring enough to want to change - to a state of wanting to change (and having the motivation and self discipline to overcome his impulses, and methodically role-play genuine feelings. What's at the root of this "want"? Fear of going to prison? Appreciation for his privileged position and overall success in life? How is that fundamentally different from a "Normal" person. And was his change a result of post-pubescent plasticity? Or is this neuroscientist getting dualist on us?
- noetic_techy 9y agoExcept that everyone who knows the person in the article corroborates that he shows psychopathic behavior.
- runciblespoon 9y agoBad science, in a random sample, testing showed no correlation between brain activity and psychopathic behavior.
- evincarofautumn 9y agoI naturally have pretty low empathy, and mild narcissistic, manipulative, and impulsive tendencies. But I recognised in my teens that those traits were going to do me more harm than good if I let them get away from me, so I sought to change myself and open up more. Now even though there might be a cold core to my personality, it’s surrounded by a deep layer of warmth that I’ve cultivated over time because I just want to, maybe because I have a loving and supportive family. Am I a psychopath? Nah, but probably somewhere on the “spectrum” if you like. It could be undiagnosed ASD or adult ADD or any number of other things. But I don’t think that’s even necessarily the right question. All that matters is the reality of living with the mind you’ve got; being labelled with a “condition” just gives you some finer instruments like therapy and medication to help accomplish that.
- billyjobob 9y agoI used to think I had changed in the same way you did. Now I realize that the majority of (male) teenagers are narcissistic, manipulative and impulsive. Fortunately most of them grow out of it sometime in their 20s. See "A Clockwork Orange".
- evincarofautumn 9y agoSure, those are normal teenage things to some extent. Externally, there’s not much difference between actually not caring, and acting like you don’t care or just failing to consider consequences because you’re high on testosterone or whatever.
- wavefunction 9y agoBut when you're 2-3 years of age? That's part of the article's point.
- sudosteph 9y agoPeople with ASD are a lot of different things, but not usually manipulative. We're usually the ones who are being manipulated because we're too oblivious or too trusting for our own good. Regardless, glad you're coping. If it's ADHD though, the meds can really make a huge difference in quality of life. But I understand if you'd rather not seek treatment when the alternative is being diagnosed with a personality disorder.
- ggm 9y agoDid he pick another cohort as a control? How did he find a cohort of brain scans to use a a control which are not at this point now equally suspect?
- forapurpose 9y ago> I happened to have a series of genetic alleles, "warrior genes," that had to do with serotonin and were thought to be at risk for aggression, violence, and low emotional and interpersonal empathy-if you're raised in an abusive environment. I worry that violence breeds violence, literally. What will happen to kids growing up in Syria today, where effectively mass abuse takes place (unless different kinds of abuse have different effects)? What will happen to kids growing up in the U.S. and Europe today, where they experience the constant bombardment of hate, either by observation, participation, or as victims of it? EDIT: How many extra abusers are we creating in the next generation, who can pass it down to their kids, etc. ... On the hopeful side, violence has decreased in the world over time; we can make make progress if we want to.
- AlexCoventry 9y agoHow have the neuroanatomical assumptions behind this article stood up under the focus on replicability which has evolved since its publication? Is there still good reason to believe that those scans imply psychopathy?
- Tomminn 9y agoI'm not sure a having a brain scan that shows you're chronically underutilizing your empathy centre makes you a psychopath. I'm sure Elon Musk's brain scan would look similar to the writer's. If we are going to continue use the word as a synonym for "human to avoid at all costs", it's about being an unrepentant predator of other humans. To conflate psychopath with hardcore -NTJ is to demonize hardcore -NTJ's, which can actually be a very valuable flavor of human for society. We should judge people by their impact crater, not by the perculiarities of their brain scans. If you look at the psychopathy questionnaires, they have a heavy focus on the unrepentant predator side of things (e.g. https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/LSRP.php https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/LSRP.php). The author does not sound like an unrepentant predator, so I think without the benefit of seeing his brain scan, few psychologists/psychiatrists would diagnose him as a psychopath.
- exolymph 9y ago> I'm sure Elon Musk's brain scan would look similar to the writer's. Why are you sure of that?
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- Tomminn 9y agoYou're right that "sure" is too strong a word- I should have said "I have a hunch". The hunch is because stories like this https://www.quora.com/What-is-known-about-Elon-Musks-long-time-assistant-Mary-Beth-Brown https://www.quora.com/What-is-known-about-Elon-Musks-long-ti... about Elon Musk are not uncommon.
- Myrmornis 9y agoThis article lurches into a rambling story about the biology of psychopathy without defining what psychopathy is, and the font keeps changing size for no apparent reason.
- mmirate 9y ago> It means, for example, that if you have to go to war, and sometimes you probably have to go to war—I'm not talking about a belligerent country starting war or fomenting discord, but if you have to go to war and to engage infantry—you do not send 18-year-olds into it, because their brains aren't set. Unless the enemy infantry and fire-support are utterly incompetent or horribly outnumbered, the vast majority of such 18-year-olds will be killed in action. (And in the outnumbering case, the younger infantry are likely to be lower-rank and therefore could be easily selected for the more dangerous tasks.) What consequences remain, then, of using 18-year-olds instead of 25-year-olds? Is the author actually implying that 18-year-olds' emotional deficiencies make them less competent as infantry?