7 ms·

> this chick I can't, just can't, not in 2018, leave "this chick" without a remark: it sounds rather derogatory. Please be more respectful.

by chx 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
phatfish 9y ago
Its not derogatory, stop stirring.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
purple-again 9y ago
I apologize if the word offends you. It was both intentioned to be non offensive (which should be apparent from my admiration for her WORK while giving no fucks about her as a person) and carries a common definition in the English space of being polite and non derogatory. Had she been male my comment would be exactly the same except it would say 'dude' in place of 'chick'. Now does anyone know where I can find that write up, because I'm still really interested?
- albedoa 9y ago
  I believe this tweet implies that she still (as of that thread) had not written it up: https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/953713207205441536 https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/953713207205441536
- levesque 9y ago
  Tongue in cheek reaction to your calling her "this chick": https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049 https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049 I am not "this chick," I have never been "this chick," the correct label is "yonder youthful poultry"
- markcerqueira 9y ago
  Do you normally apologize for people feeling offended about what you said instead of just apologizing?
  - johnchristopher 9y ago
    This is a major pet peeve of mine. In politicians's mouth it seems so offending, condescending and passive-agressive: "If my words have offended you I give you my apologies". They rarely take responsibility for themselves, offloading it on their « words » and « if » or « may have offended ». Like "I am sorry if you are too emotive to hear my words". Gah.
  - gkilmain 9y ago
    Are you genuinely curious or just piling on?
- johnchristopher 9y ago
  > I am not "this chick," I have never been "this chick," the correct label is "yonder youthful poultry" https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049 https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049
- dwighttk 9y ago
  Now, "Dude" - that's a name no one would self-apply where I come from.
- Raphmedia 9y ago
  > Had she been male my comment would be exactly the same except it would say 'dude' in place of 'chick'. Dude is gender neutral. Chick comes from "chica", which by itself comes from the Latin "ciccum" as in pea. By calling a woman a chick, you are called her a "chick-pea". There's even some association with "chick bird", as in a bird you hunt. Modern usage associates the use of "chick" with the beauty of the individual. Calling a woman a "chick" is using her physical appearance to describe her, disregarding her actual skills and achievements. By calling a woman a chick, you are either: A) Calling her a young girl (women are not children) B) Calling her a young bird (women are not prey) C) Calling her a young plant (women are more than brainless beautiful things) All of those can offend. The equivalent would be calling a men "boy toy" or some such slang. Not something you can do without earning a punch in the face. Derogate: –verb (used with object) 3. to disparage or belittle.
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    "Dude is gender neutral." When everyone you've ever known, and all media you've ever seen, for 30 years, has exclusively used "dude" for males only, is it really "gender neutral"?
    - iamdave 9y ago
      I promise I'm not being antagonistic just because I disagree with you (a qualifier that shouldn't even be necessary but eggshells are abundant in this thread right now), it's weird to me to hear this because I grew up in a time in a culture where dude 100% was gender neutral and it was celebrated[1] as such [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMODweN8lQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMODweN8lQ
      - mgkimsal 9y ago
        "just because I disagree with you" I asked a question. I'm not sure what there is to disagree about.
    - Raphmedia 9y ago
      It is generally accepted as gender neutral. Lately, I've seen a lot of LGBT communities encouraging its use. Googling "Is dude gender neutral?" results in a lot of sites telling you that it is. "In the early 1960s, dude became prominent in surfer culture as a synonym of guy or fella. The female equivalent was "dudette" or "dudess," but these have both fallen into disuse, and "dude" is now also used as a unisex term." Dude - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  "and carries a common definition in the English space of being polite and non derogatory." Not really. It's always been somewhat condescending. "Had she been male my comment would be exactly the same except it would say 'dude' in place of 'chick'." Dude, and in fact many euphemisms for men, don't carry the same connotations as the ones for women.
- 9889095r3jh 9y ago
  If I made a name for myself in journalism with honest indepth reporting that didn't skimp on the technical details, and someone said "that dudes awesome," I'd feel a little pissed. If you saw me at a bar, forgot my name, and said "hey you're that dude from the other day" I wouldn't mind. All about context. She's a professional and this is a professional context. "Chick" isn't a huge deal, and I'm sure you didn't mean to be offensive. But it reflects a level of informality that isn't appropriate for the situation.
aje403 9y ago
What about "those chx"? edit: jeez, tough crowd here...
- nurettin 9y ago
  This is not an entertainment outlet.
  - _jal 9y ago
    That is exactly what this is.
  - aje403 9y ago
    Your majesty, it's not normandy beach for (relatively) inane gender linguistics, either. Regardless, I would not want it on my conscience to ignore the irony of someone named chx lambasting another person for using the word chicks with innocuous intent.
  - iamdave 9y ago
    It's not Reddit but I definitely also don't come to hackernews when I'm taking a break from work for a few moments because I'm expecting to do more work.
clu3l355 9y ago
Is it not the female equivalent of "this dude"? edit: seems that's how the author intended it
- DanBC 9y ago
  HN has an international audience, and cultural norms are different in different regions. Very roughly in English workplaces you should avoid calling any of the women "chick" because you'll cause grave offence. There are very narrow exceptions to this. In places like Stoke on Trent you might find people calling each other "my duck" (but this isn't just women; men call each other "me duck" too.) But even there you need to know the person and know it's ok. In this particular example: I'm uncomfortable with the use of "chick" and it makes me think less of the writer, even after the explanation that it was an alternate to "dude". People can use whatever language they like, but they should be aware of the effect of the language they chose on other people so they make an informed choice.
  - JFFalcon 9y ago
    Agreed. I'm amazed the comment got such a negative reaction. I can't think of anyone I know who would be happy about being called a chick, however casually.
    - purple-again 9y ago
      https://hackerchick.com/ https://hackerchick.com/ http://chickswhocode.com/ http://chickswhocode.com/ http://chickscancode.com/ http://chickscancode.com/ I spent 5 seconds googling.
      - sli 9y ago
        Nostalgia Chick is another one, though I don't think she does that actual show anymore.
      - bunderbunder 9y ago
        There can be some subtlety there, though. Where I come from (central US), "chick" is similar to "dork" in that it can, but doesn't necessarily, have derogatory connotations. It depends a lot on context. It's perfectly acceptable (though slightly cheeky) to call oneself a dork in public, but you typically wouldn't call someone else a dork unless you were already on very familiar terms with that person. And you would only do it in familiar circumstances. Doing it with someone you don't know very well, or doing it in public, would be considered offensive. Doubly so if you don't know them and it's in public. Chick operates the same way, only it's got even more cultural baggage because it features in a lot of memes that are associated with sexism (e.g., the phrase "cruising for chicks"). So I wouldn't even dream of presuming that it's OK for me to call someone else a chick in public, even if I knew them to be a founding member of Chicks who Code. I realize that the original poster was probably just trying to be cute. But, as John Scalzi famously observed, "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'."
AlexB138 9y ago
Attempting to dictate other people's language usage, especially over such innocuous terms, is extremely condescending moralizing. You ought to consider being more respectful yourself.
cup-of-tea 9y ago
Please try harder to leave it without a remark next time.

> this chick I can't, just can't, not in 2018, leave "this chick" without a remark: it sounds rather derogatory. Please be more respectful.

by chx 9y ago

> this chick I can't, just can't, not in 2018, leave "this chick" without a remark: it sounds rather derogatory. Please be more respectful.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

phatfish 9y ago

Its not derogatory, stop stirring.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

purple-again 9y ago

I apologize if the word offends you. It was both intentioned to be non offensive (which should be apparent from my admiration for her WORK while giving no fucks about her as a person) and carries a common definition in the English space of being polite and non derogatory. Had she been male my comment would be exactly the same except it would say 'dude' in place of 'chick'. Now does anyone know where I can find that write up, because I'm still really interested?

albedoa 9y ago
I believe this tweet implies that she still (as of that thread) had not written it up: https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/953713207205441536 https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/953713207205441536
levesque 9y ago
Tongue in cheek reaction to your calling her "this chick": https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049 https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049 I am not "this chick," I have never been "this chick," the correct label is "yonder youthful poultry"
markcerqueira 9y ago
Do you normally apologize for people feeling offended about what you said instead of just apologizing?
- johnchristopher 9y ago
  This is a major pet peeve of mine. In politicians's mouth it seems so offending, condescending and passive-agressive: "If my words have offended you I give you my apologies". They rarely take responsibility for themselves, offloading it on their « words » and « if » or « may have offended ». Like "I am sorry if you are too emotive to hear my words". Gah.
- gkilmain 9y ago
  Are you genuinely curious or just piling on?
johnchristopher 9y ago
> I am not "this chick," I have never been "this chick," the correct label is "yonder youthful poultry" https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049 https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/973951162536706049
dwighttk 9y ago
Now, "Dude" - that's a name no one would self-apply where I come from.
Raphmedia 9y ago
> Had she been male my comment would be exactly the same except it would say 'dude' in place of 'chick'. Dude is gender neutral. Chick comes from "chica", which by itself comes from the Latin "ciccum" as in pea. By calling a woman a chick, you are called her a "chick-pea". There's even some association with "chick bird", as in a bird you hunt. Modern usage associates the use of "chick" with the beauty of the individual. Calling a woman a "chick" is using her physical appearance to describe her, disregarding her actual skills and achievements. By calling a woman a chick, you are either: A) Calling her a young girl (women are not children) B) Calling her a young bird (women are not prey) C) Calling her a young plant (women are more than brainless beautiful things) All of those can offend. The equivalent would be calling a men "boy toy" or some such slang. Not something you can do without earning a punch in the face. Derogate: –verb (used with object) 3. to disparage or belittle.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  "Dude is gender neutral." When everyone you've ever known, and all media you've ever seen, for 30 years, has exclusively used "dude" for males only, is it really "gender neutral"?
  - iamdave 9y ago
    I promise I'm not being antagonistic just because I disagree with you (a qualifier that shouldn't even be necessary but eggshells are abundant in this thread right now), it's weird to me to hear this because I grew up in a time in a culture where dude 100% was gender neutral and it was celebrated[1] as such [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMODweN8lQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMODweN8lQ
    - mgkimsal 9y ago
      "just because I disagree with you" I asked a question. I'm not sure what there is to disagree about.
  - Raphmedia 9y ago
    It is generally accepted as gender neutral. Lately, I've seen a lot of LGBT communities encouraging its use. Googling "Is dude gender neutral?" results in a lot of sites telling you that it is. "In the early 1960s, dude became prominent in surfer culture as a synonym of guy or fella. The female equivalent was "dudette" or "dudess," but these have both fallen into disuse, and "dude" is now also used as a unisex term." Dude - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude
s73v3r_ 9y ago
"and carries a common definition in the English space of being polite and non derogatory." Not really. It's always been somewhat condescending. "Had she been male my comment would be exactly the same except it would say 'dude' in place of 'chick'." Dude, and in fact many euphemisms for men, don't carry the same connotations as the ones for women.
9889095r3jh 9y ago
If I made a name for myself in journalism with honest indepth reporting that didn't skimp on the technical details, and someone said "that dudes awesome," I'd feel a little pissed. If you saw me at a bar, forgot my name, and said "hey you're that dude from the other day" I wouldn't mind. All about context. She's a professional and this is a professional context. "Chick" isn't a huge deal, and I'm sure you didn't mean to be offensive. But it reflects a level of informality that isn't appropriate for the situation.

aje403 9y ago

What about "those chx"? edit: jeez, tough crowd here...

nurettin 9y ago
This is not an entertainment outlet.
- _jal 9y ago
  That is exactly what this is.
- aje403 9y ago
  Your majesty, it's not normandy beach for (relatively) inane gender linguistics, either. Regardless, I would not want it on my conscience to ignore the irony of someone named chx lambasting another person for using the word chicks with innocuous intent.
- iamdave 9y ago
  It's not Reddit but I definitely also don't come to hackernews when I'm taking a break from work for a few moments because I'm expecting to do more work.

clu3l355 9y ago

Is it not the female equivalent of "this dude"? edit: seems that's how the author intended it

DanBC 9y ago
HN has an international audience, and cultural norms are different in different regions. Very roughly in English workplaces you should avoid calling any of the women "chick" because you'll cause grave offence. There are very narrow exceptions to this. In places like Stoke on Trent you might find people calling each other "my duck" (but this isn't just women; men call each other "me duck" too.) But even there you need to know the person and know it's ok. In this particular example: I'm uncomfortable with the use of "chick" and it makes me think less of the writer, even after the explanation that it was an alternate to "dude". People can use whatever language they like, but they should be aware of the effect of the language they chose on other people so they make an informed choice.
- JFFalcon 9y ago
  Agreed. I'm amazed the comment got such a negative reaction. I can't think of anyone I know who would be happy about being called a chick, however casually.
  - purple-again 9y ago
    https://hackerchick.com/ https://hackerchick.com/ http://chickswhocode.com/ http://chickswhocode.com/ http://chickscancode.com/ http://chickscancode.com/ I spent 5 seconds googling.
    - sli 9y ago
      Nostalgia Chick is another one, though I don't think she does that actual show anymore.
    - bunderbunder 9y ago
      There can be some subtlety there, though. Where I come from (central US), "chick" is similar to "dork" in that it can, but doesn't necessarily, have derogatory connotations. It depends a lot on context. It's perfectly acceptable (though slightly cheeky) to call oneself a dork in public, but you typically wouldn't call someone else a dork unless you were already on very familiar terms with that person. And you would only do it in familiar circumstances. Doing it with someone you don't know very well, or doing it in public, would be considered offensive. Doubly so if you don't know them and it's in public. Chick operates the same way, only it's got even more cultural baggage because it features in a lot of memes that are associated with sexism (e.g., the phrase "cruising for chicks"). So I wouldn't even dream of presuming that it's OK for me to call someone else a chick in public, even if I knew them to be a founding member of Chicks who Code. I realize that the original poster was probably just trying to be cute. But, as John Scalzi famously observed, "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'."

AlexB138 9y ago

Attempting to dictate other people's language usage, especially over such innocuous terms, is extremely condescending moralizing. You ought to consider being more respectful yourself.

cup-of-tea 9y ago

Please try harder to leave it without a remark next time.