4 ms·

As an HN reader, I believe I am qualified to comment on the strategic direction of a major multi-billion-dollar software company. By pushing to make Windows as

As an HN reader, I believe I am qualified to comment on the strategic direction of a major multi-billion-dollar software company. By pushing to make Windows as idiot-proof as possible, Microsoft is zagging when it should zig. They've basically lost the mass market. The e-mail checking machine in the kitchen has been replaced by a tablet, and it doesn't run Windows. Their only hope is to position Windows as the OS for people who want to get serious work done, playing on their historical strength as the platform for office computers. To that end, they have to stop taking the people who use Windows all day long at work for granted, because it's never been easier to find an alternative, and if they lose the enterprise, Windows is over. And it's stuff like this I'm thinking of when I say "taking for granted." Telemetry. User-hostile update policies. Minecraft in the start menu. Pushing a Microsoft account for desktop login. These things are not office-user friendly, they do not say, "we take your need to do work on this computer seriously."

thirdsun 9y ago
That's one side of the story. There are still huge numbers of casual and home users who are much better off with automatic updates and the reflex to disable them due to being a minor annoyance has to go.
- sevensor 9y ago
  > There are still huge numbers of casual and home users who are much better off with automatic updates and the reflex to disable them due to being a minor annoyance has to go. Outside of gamers, though, most of them couldn't care less about Windows and continue to use it because it's what came with the laptop. This is an irretrievably shrinking market. I admit Microsoft is in a bind here. A huge legacy install base that refuses to apply updates when asked nicely is a recipe for another Conficker. Their previous success in the consumer market has turned into a huge liability. But they can't fix that by having a punitive update process in Windows 10. All those old unpatched Windows 7 machines are still out there. The same users who don't apply patches opted out of the free windows 10 update.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    Let's take a look at what the "opting out" looked like: "OMG OMG, there's a completely different thing in the computer than there was yesterday! Make it go away!! I didn't touch nothing this time!!!" And lo and behold, there was indeed a completely different OS, without any attempt at obtaining user consent (or, even worse, against the expressed denial of consent). Are you surprised that the users "opted out" of further violations of expectations? TL;DR: nonconsensual "upgrade" bad; perhaps the tea analogy didn't quite register with MS? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8
    - sevensor 9y ago
      > Are you surprised that the users "opted out" of further violations of expectations? Not in the least. Like I said, I think MS is terrified of another Conficker, and they reacted in the worst possible way by trying to coerce people into applying updates. Worse, not all of those updates were truly for the users' benefit, and some of them rendered the user's computer inoperable. The not-unexpected result is that people, especially the less sophisticated userbase we're talking about, have moved from total indifference towards updates to moderate distrust.
hungerstrike 9y ago
> As an HN reader, I believe I am qualified... Yes, those qualifications being: 1) Have a browser. 2) Be able to type your words. > By pushing to make Windows as idiot-proof as possible... They've basically lost the mass market. The e-mail checking machine in the kitchen has been replaced by a tablet... I've never known anyone to have an "e-mail" checking machine in their kitchen. I do know lots of folks who work at home though and they all use Windows. > Their only hope is to position Windows as the OS for people who want to get serious work done... OK, done and done. > ...because it's never been easier to find an alternative... Go ahead, find one. I'll wait. Please tell me what OS is going to replace Windows?? > Telemetry. User-hostile update policies. Minecraft in the start menu. Pushing a Microsoft account for desktop login. These things are not office-user friendly... Telemetry, updates and games have been part of Windows since forever. None of this is new. Search for: Office 2000 Customer Experience Improvement. You'll find people asking how to turn it off.
- rascul 9y ago
  > I've never known anyone to have an "e-mail" checking machine in their kitchen. I saw a lot of that in years past. Seems that there was a trend for awhile to have a builtin desk in the kitchen, and that desk typically had a Windows computer on it. I doubt many of these people used it for more than email and basic stuff. > Go ahead, find one. I'll wait. Please tell me what OS is going to replace Windows?? I'm seeing Linux slowly take over on workstations, both at home and at the office. I'm no longer surprised to find Linux installed where previously it would have been unheard of. These are just my observations, though.
  - _Tev 9y ago
    > I'm seeing Linux slowly take over on workstations, both at home and at the office. My observation is more and more people are trying linux, probably because of Win10 stuff. But they all say they don't like it, and go back to Win or to Mac. I heard yesterday one diehard linux fan pondering going to Mac ... If Apple did not let quality slide they would have be the windows-replacement, but we are stuck with 2 bad options and one funny-bad one. And Windows is still the most convenient and easiest, even if only because of history and inertia.
WorldMaker 9y ago
> By pushing to make Windows as idiot-proof as possible, Microsoft is zagging when it should zig. [...] Their only hope is to position Windows as the OS for people who want to get serious work done Arguably that's what they are doing by making Windows as idiot-proof as possible. For all their accidental botnets, the home users forgetting or not knowing to keep their machines updated are one problem, sure, but let's not forget that the real villains in not keeping Windows machines up to date are all in Enterprise IT. There are so many people actively working to keep machines out of date in the name of keeping their jobs "easy" or "stability", and that should be a staggering statistic. I've got a feeling the number of Fortune 5,000 companies that have contributed to botnets is incredibly underreported, and I've got a feeling the number of Fortune 500 companies that have only avoided that fate by raw luck and bubble gum is a lot bigger than people think. > Telemetry Enterprise loves Telemetry. They want your machine to spy on all your activities. They want to complain that you spend too much time on HN and accidentally glance at articles related to "Gaming" during work time because they have a cool HN discussion thread. Admittedly, some are overtly mad at Microsoft for getting access to that data themselves and trying to use some telemetry to improve their products, but how many of those complaining are covertly excited that they get access to the same data in tools like System Center? > User-hostile update policies. Per above, Enterprises have shown they need to be forced to update too. > Pushing a Microsoft account for desktop login. Enterprises love accounts. It helps keep things accountable. (Terrible pun intended.) Your Microsoft account gets to connect to your Office 365 work account. They can send you reminders to your personal Microsoft Account via the Microsoft Graph to your home computer to get back to work, if you let them. With BYOD workplaces, your home computer can double as your workplace computer and you can be so productive with all your accounts communicating together in "harmony", personal and work. For the users used to using an AD domain account every day at work, a personal Microsoft Account can make their home devices feel like a "real boy" with the nice things like profile roaming that their Enterprise AD accounts get (assuming the Enterprise doesn't turn off nice things with Group Policies and mismanagement, of course). > These things are not office-user friendly Except for Minecraft, these things are extremely office-user friendly. These are things Enterprises love. These are reasons why most Enterprises couldn't quit Windows if they tried. (Even forced updates; as much as some companies are griping right now, soon it will be the new normal and corporate ITs will adjust. They'll continue to complain, having a nice scapegoat to blame in Microsoft for update failures, but they'll also likely enjoy the perks of the new regime eventually as they realize that tech debt of not updating was its own misery and less "easy" than they thought it was.)

thirdsun 9y ago

That's one side of the story. There are still huge numbers of casual and home users who are much better off with automatic updates and the reflex to disable them due to being a minor annoyance has to go.

sevensor 9y ago
> There are still huge numbers of casual and home users who are much better off with automatic updates and the reflex to disable them due to being a minor annoyance has to go. Outside of gamers, though, most of them couldn't care less about Windows and continue to use it because it's what came with the laptop. This is an irretrievably shrinking market. I admit Microsoft is in a bind here. A huge legacy install base that refuses to apply updates when asked nicely is a recipe for another Conficker. Their previous success in the consumer market has turned into a huge liability. But they can't fix that by having a punitive update process in Windows 10. All those old unpatched Windows 7 machines are still out there. The same users who don't apply patches opted out of the free windows 10 update.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Let's take a look at what the "opting out" looked like: "OMG OMG, there's a completely different thing in the computer than there was yesterday! Make it go away!! I didn't touch nothing this time!!!" And lo and behold, there was indeed a completely different OS, without any attempt at obtaining user consent (or, even worse, against the expressed denial of consent). Are you surprised that the users "opted out" of further violations of expectations? TL;DR: nonconsensual "upgrade" bad; perhaps the tea analogy didn't quite register with MS? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8
  - sevensor 9y ago
    > Are you surprised that the users "opted out" of further violations of expectations? Not in the least. Like I said, I think MS is terrified of another Conficker, and they reacted in the worst possible way by trying to coerce people into applying updates. Worse, not all of those updates were truly for the users' benefit, and some of them rendered the user's computer inoperable. The not-unexpected result is that people, especially the less sophisticated userbase we're talking about, have moved from total indifference towards updates to moderate distrust.

hungerstrike 9y ago

> As an HN reader, I believe I am qualified... Yes, those qualifications being: 1) Have a browser. 2) Be able to type your words. > By pushing to make Windows as idiot-proof as possible... They've basically lost the mass market. The e-mail checking machine in the kitchen has been replaced by a tablet... I've never known anyone to have an "e-mail" checking machine in their kitchen. I do know lots of folks who work at home though and they all use Windows. > Their only hope is to position Windows as the OS for people who want to get serious work done... OK, done and done. > ...because it's never been easier to find an alternative... Go ahead, find one. I'll wait. Please tell me what OS is going to replace Windows?? > Telemetry. User-hostile update policies. Minecraft in the start menu. Pushing a Microsoft account for desktop login. These things are not office-user friendly... Telemetry, updates and games have been part of Windows since forever. None of this is new. Search for: Office 2000 Customer Experience Improvement. You'll find people asking how to turn it off.

rascul 9y ago
> I've never known anyone to have an "e-mail" checking machine in their kitchen. I saw a lot of that in years past. Seems that there was a trend for awhile to have a builtin desk in the kitchen, and that desk typically had a Windows computer on it. I doubt many of these people used it for more than email and basic stuff. > Go ahead, find one. I'll wait. Please tell me what OS is going to replace Windows?? I'm seeing Linux slowly take over on workstations, both at home and at the office. I'm no longer surprised to find Linux installed where previously it would have been unheard of. These are just my observations, though.
- _Tev 9y ago
  > I'm seeing Linux slowly take over on workstations, both at home and at the office. My observation is more and more people are trying linux, probably because of Win10 stuff. But they all say they don't like it, and go back to Win or to Mac. I heard yesterday one diehard linux fan pondering going to Mac ... If Apple did not let quality slide they would have be the windows-replacement, but we are stuck with 2 bad options and one funny-bad one. And Windows is still the most convenient and easiest, even if only because of history and inertia.

WorldMaker 9y ago

> By pushing to make Windows as idiot-proof as possible, Microsoft is zagging when it should zig. [...] Their only hope is to position Windows as the OS for people who want to get serious work done Arguably that's what they are doing by making Windows as idiot-proof as possible. For all their accidental botnets, the home users forgetting or not knowing to keep their machines updated are one problem, sure, but let's not forget that the real villains in not keeping Windows machines up to date are all in Enterprise IT. There are so many people actively working to keep machines out of date in the name of keeping their jobs "easy" or "stability", and that should be a staggering statistic. I've got a feeling the number of Fortune 5,000 companies that have contributed to botnets is incredibly underreported, and I've got a feeling the number of Fortune 500 companies that have only avoided that fate by raw luck and bubble gum is a lot bigger than people think. > Telemetry Enterprise loves Telemetry. They want your machine to spy on all your activities. They want to complain that you spend too much time on HN and accidentally glance at articles related to "Gaming" during work time because they have a cool HN discussion thread. Admittedly, some are overtly mad at Microsoft for getting access to that data themselves and trying to use some telemetry to improve their products, but how many of those complaining are covertly excited that they get access to the same data in tools like System Center? > User-hostile update policies. Per above, Enterprises have shown they need to be forced to update too. > Pushing a Microsoft account for desktop login. Enterprises love accounts. It helps keep things accountable. (Terrible pun intended.) Your Microsoft account gets to connect to your Office 365 work account. They can send you reminders to your personal Microsoft Account via the Microsoft Graph to your home computer to get back to work, if you let them. With BYOD workplaces, your home computer can double as your workplace computer and you can be so productive with all your accounts communicating together in "harmony", personal and work. For the users used to using an AD domain account every day at work, a personal Microsoft Account can make their home devices feel like a "real boy" with the nice things like profile roaming that their Enterprise AD accounts get (assuming the Enterprise doesn't turn off nice things with Group Policies and mismanagement, of course). > These things are not office-user friendly Except for Minecraft, these things are extremely office-user friendly. These are things Enterprises love. These are reasons why most Enterprises couldn't quit Windows if they tried. (Even forced updates; as much as some companies are griping right now, soon it will be the new normal and corporate ITs will adjust. They'll continue to complain, having a nice scapegoat to blame in Microsoft for update failures, but they'll also likely enjoy the perks of the new regime eventually as they realize that tech debt of not updating was its own misery and less "easy" than they thought it was.)