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This is like complaining about the internet because it contains websites that you have no obligation to ever visit.

by ppod 9y ago

fredoliveira 9y ago
It is not. In fact, OP states exactly how it is not, by saying that Reddit does very little to stop the toxicity of reddit. Are you shielded from the "bad parts" of reddit if you don't subscribe to that type of sub-reddit? Well, maybe, unless you hit /r/all in your top navigation. It's all right there lurking under the surface. Reddit gets very dark very fast and it is factual that they don't control it nearly as well as they should. So no, it is not like "complaining about the internet because it contains websites that you have no obligation to ever visit" because the internet has no mechanism to surface bad content on the whim of its users. All it takes on reddit to surface something terrible is coordination and hitting the upvote button.
- anuddashoah 9y ago
  This is clearly coming from someone whose views generally align with the progressive/leftist/globalist reddit hivemind. As someone very much on the other end of the spectrum, it might be interesting that everyone in my circles loathes reddit for the censorship and manipulative propaganda. I hate how well they "control" it, and I despise your euphemistic use of the term.
  - fredoliveira 9y ago
    I am willing to have a pondered discussion about this, because it is most certainly true that we both have biased (to one side or the other) views of what they do. It can even be that neither of us is right. I am obviously not for censorship of ideas, but reddit goes deep into the worst mankind has to offer. There's a line that each individual will draw on what is acceptable to them or not. I think that reddit often crosses that line for many people (would say most, but I don't know and am trying to avoid bias). I do think they need to stop the proliferation of racism, pedophilia and other societal maladies. You may draw different lines. But I would love examples (and you have what appears to be a throwaway account here, so I think you can be comfortable sharing) of what you think is reddit's censorship or their manipulative propaganda. I mean this in earnest. I don't see it, but we all have different views of the world.
    - anuddashoah 9y ago
      >I am obviously not for censorship of ideas You are though. What's the point of including this little disclaimer if you're going to render it meaningless in your next breath?: >I do think they need to stop the proliferation of racism, pedophilia and other societal maladies I think they have every right to do this, but I condemn them for it. If the ideas are so terrible, beat them with rational arguments. If you have to ban an idea, it seems inherently evident to me that the idea contains some irrefutable truth that can only be silenced, not defeated. It disgusts me the same way that critical discussion of the holocaust is punishable by imprisonment in some places, in contrast to virtually every other historical incident which we encourage fact-checking and debate and almost invariably acknowledge that there are two sides to every story. I wonder if I could appeal to you by taking this approach... When you drive people away from relatively mainstream places like reddit, where they are exposed to alternate viewpoints even if sticking predominantly to their politically incorrect echo-chamber subs, you don't magically change their opinion. You don't make the idea go away. All you achieve is creating a persecution complex within these people, reinforcing their belief that they know some inconvenient truth, you create solidarity within that community of exiles, and you drive them into a pure echo chamber of ever-increasing radicalisation without objection. I personally grew disillusioned with reddit after being banned from all my favourite subs for reasonably tame (and relevant) comments condemning the mass 3rd world invasion of Europe and the West, and the increasing push by socialists and Marxists to manipulate and destroy our culture. My most frequented sub I now haven't visited in, I estimate, over 18 months, because it's infuriating seeing the leftist circlejerk and knowing I'll be rate-limited or banned even if I create a throwaway to offer a reasonable and polite comment in opposition. Instead, I spend most of my time on voat and a little on 8chan, and in the space of a couple years I've gone from libertarian race realist to full 'gas the kikes' and 'niggers ruin everything'. It's a redpill I can't unswallow now. It's a redpill I maybe never would have known if I hadn't seen subs banned, subs manipulated, inconvenient news censored, algorithms altered, etc and said fuck it, I'm out. If they were at least honest about it, I could accept it. Perhaps it's the perverse nature of it that frustrates me the most. /r/politics is an egregious example: the name implies neutrality, when in fact it's a cesspool of anti-White, pro-globalist, leftist hysteria and propaganda.
  - John_KZ 9y ago
    Reddit isn't leftist. Left-wing oriented comments and content is taked down and bashed upon. Reddit is build primarily on american neo-liberalism and whatever the clinton segment of the Democratic party supports. It's very offensive to say this is representitive of left wing ideas. It's actually right-wing unless you compare them with literal Nazis like Breitbart-affiliated politicians.
    - acdha 9y ago
      > Reddit is build primarily on american neo-liberalism and whatever the clinton segment of the Democratic party supports. You know you’re talking about the place where GamerGate kept rolling, various neo-Nazi / white supremacist / misogynist groups remained for years, etc. At most I’d say that Reddit is libertarian leaning due to the general preference for a hands-off free for all.
- dorfsmay 9y ago
  The first rule if reddit is to unsubscribe from/r/all.
- catamorphismic 9y ago
  > Reddit gets very dark very fast and it is factual that they don't control it nearly as well as they should. It can never be factual that something should be, since what should be is subjective.
- ppod 9y ago
  >the internet has no mechanism to surface bad content on the whim of its users. Don't think this is true, search engines and crawlers can surface anything that users want to find. >All it takes on reddit to surface something terrible is coordination and hitting the upvote button. You need never see content from subreddits you are not subscribed to
EarthIsHome 9y ago
I think it's harder to find stand-alone sites dedicated to dark topics than it is to find a group of subreddits. Reddit streamlines the process and provides a one-stop shop reducing the barriers of entry.
ben_w 9y ago
When discussing social problems of (for example) rumour mills, propaganda from niche and large causes, and conspiracies to commit crimes, it’s missing the point spectacularly to point out we’re under no obligation to ever visit those groups — their influence affects our world regardless of out patronage.

This is like complaining about the internet because it contains websites that you have no obligation to ever visit.

by ppod 9y ago

This is like complaining about the internet because it contains websites that you have no obligation to ever visit.

It is not. In fact, OP states exactly how it is not, by saying that Reddit does very little to stop the toxicity of reddit. Are you shielded from the "bad parts" of reddit if you don't subscribe to that type of sub-reddit? Well, maybe, unless you hit /r/all in your top navigation. It's all right there lurking under the surface. Reddit gets very dark very fast and it is factual that they don't control it nearly as well as they should. So no, it is not like "complaining about the internet because it contains websites that you have no obligation to ever visit" because the internet has no mechanism to surface bad content on the whim of its users. All it takes on reddit to surface something terrible is coordination and hitting the upvote button.

anuddashoah 9y ago
This is clearly coming from someone whose views generally align with the progressive/leftist/globalist reddit hivemind. As someone very much on the other end of the spectrum, it might be interesting that everyone in my circles loathes reddit for the censorship and manipulative propaganda. I hate how well they "control" it, and I despise your euphemistic use of the term.
- fredoliveira 9y ago
  I am willing to have a pondered discussion about this, because it is most certainly true that we both have biased (to one side or the other) views of what they do. It can even be that neither of us is right. I am obviously not for censorship of ideas, but reddit goes deep into the worst mankind has to offer. There's a line that each individual will draw on what is acceptable to them or not. I think that reddit often crosses that line for many people (would say most, but I don't know and am trying to avoid bias). I do think they need to stop the proliferation of racism, pedophilia and other societal maladies. You may draw different lines. But I would love examples (and you have what appears to be a throwaway account here, so I think you can be comfortable sharing) of what you think is reddit's censorship or their manipulative propaganda. I mean this in earnest. I don't see it, but we all have different views of the world.
  - anuddashoah 9y ago
    >I am obviously not for censorship of ideas You are though. What's the point of including this little disclaimer if you're going to render it meaningless in your next breath?: >I do think they need to stop the proliferation of racism, pedophilia and other societal maladies I think they have every right to do this, but I condemn them for it. If the ideas are so terrible, beat them with rational arguments. If you have to ban an idea, it seems inherently evident to me that the idea contains some irrefutable truth that can only be silenced, not defeated. It disgusts me the same way that critical discussion of the holocaust is punishable by imprisonment in some places, in contrast to virtually every other historical incident which we encourage fact-checking and debate and almost invariably acknowledge that there are two sides to every story. I wonder if I could appeal to you by taking this approach... When you drive people away from relatively mainstream places like reddit, where they are exposed to alternate viewpoints even if sticking predominantly to their politically incorrect echo-chamber subs, you don't magically change their opinion. You don't make the idea go away. All you achieve is creating a persecution complex within these people, reinforcing their belief that they know some inconvenient truth, you create solidarity within that community of exiles, and you drive them into a pure echo chamber of ever-increasing radicalisation without objection. I personally grew disillusioned with reddit after being banned from all my favourite subs for reasonably tame (and relevant) comments condemning the mass 3rd world invasion of Europe and the West, and the increasing push by socialists and Marxists to manipulate and destroy our culture. My most frequented sub I now haven't visited in, I estimate, over 18 months, because it's infuriating seeing the leftist circlejerk and knowing I'll be rate-limited or banned even if I create a throwaway to offer a reasonable and polite comment in opposition. Instead, I spend most of my time on voat and a little on 8chan, and in the space of a couple years I've gone from libertarian race realist to full 'gas the kikes' and 'niggers ruin everything'. It's a redpill I can't unswallow now. It's a redpill I maybe never would have known if I hadn't seen subs banned, subs manipulated, inconvenient news censored, algorithms altered, etc and said fuck it, I'm out. If they were at least honest about it, I could accept it. Perhaps it's the perverse nature of it that frustrates me the most. /r/politics is an egregious example: the name implies neutrality, when in fact it's a cesspool of anti-White, pro-globalist, leftist hysteria and propaganda.
- John_KZ 9y ago
  Reddit isn't leftist. Left-wing oriented comments and content is taked down and bashed upon. Reddit is build primarily on american neo-liberalism and whatever the clinton segment of the Democratic party supports. It's very offensive to say this is representitive of left wing ideas. It's actually right-wing unless you compare them with literal Nazis like Breitbart-affiliated politicians.
  - acdha 9y ago
    > Reddit is build primarily on american neo-liberalism and whatever the clinton segment of the Democratic party supports. You know you’re talking about the place where GamerGate kept rolling, various neo-Nazi / white supremacist / misogynist groups remained for years, etc. At most I’d say that Reddit is libertarian leaning due to the general preference for a hands-off free for all.
dorfsmay 9y ago
The first rule if reddit is to unsubscribe from/r/all.
catamorphismic 9y ago
> Reddit gets very dark very fast and it is factual that they don't control it nearly as well as they should. It can never be factual that something should be, since what should be is subjective.
ppod 9y ago
>the internet has no mechanism to surface bad content on the whim of its users. Don't think this is true, search engines and crawlers can surface anything that users want to find. >All it takes on reddit to surface something terrible is coordination and hitting the upvote button. You need never see content from subreddits you are not subscribed to

EarthIsHome 9y ago

I think it's harder to find stand-alone sites dedicated to dark topics than it is to find a group of subreddits. Reddit streamlines the process and provides a one-stop shop reducing the barriers of entry.

ben_w 9y ago

When discussing social problems of (for example) rumour mills, propaganda from niche and large causes, and conspiracies to commit crimes, it’s missing the point spectacularly to point out we’re under no obligation to ever visit those groups — their influence affects our world regardless of out patronage.