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My only problem with this is that it's not really a test at all, because it is not quantifiable. It's almost like saying, "The true test of product/market fit

My only problem with this is that it's not really a test at all, because it is not quantifiable. It's almost like saying, "The true test of product/market fit is whether or not it's obvious you have product/market fit." Essentially, the statement is redundant. There are various levels of Product/Market Fit. There's unicorn-level product/market fit and there's amazing product in a small market-level product/market fit (ie. $25M-$100M exit). YC and others in the VC-world only seem to recognize the unicorn-level because that's the only level that's relevant to them.

boffinism 9y ago
> "The true test of product/market fit is whether or not it's obvious you have product/market fit." The thing is, this is the sort of thing people _actually say_ about p/m fit. E.g. Marc Andreessen: "you can always feel product/market fit when it’s happening"[0]. It might feel redundant, tautological and unhelpful, but there are a heck of a lot of startups who are really, really trying to convince themselves they're ready for the next step because "I think we've got product/market fit - I mean, we got that pilot with a big corporate, didn't we?". Statements like this are a reminder to bring over-optimistic entrepreneurs back down to earth and remind them there's still work to do. [0] https://a16z.com/2017/02/18/12-things-about-product-market-fit/ https://a16z.com/2017/02/18/12-things-about-product-market-f...
- ekidd 9y ago
  > The thing is, this is the sort of thing people _actually say_ about p/m fit. E.g. Marc Andreessen: "you can always feel product/market fit when it’s happening"[0]. I've consulted for quite a few startups, and the successful ones really do feel different. Are there lines of people standing outside the booth at trade shows trying to write 5-figure checks? Are the sales people bringing in big contracts so quickly that people start mixing them up in conversation? Is engineering constantly struggling to keep up with ridiculous growth? Mind you, not all of these companies succeed. Some find themselves trapped in a market that can't sustain growth. Others are mismanaged, or ultimately suffer from too much churn. Sometimes Google moves into the market and everything gets harder. But once you've seen very aggressive customer demand, it's pretty obvious.
  - bald 9y ago
    Can you please confirm that you have really experienced these scenarios multiple times? In which geography? Can you give names of the companies? This would TOTALLY redefine my personal definition of product-market fit. Thanks!
    - woah 9y ago
      A poster above wrote that Slack had 10x yearly growth, that sounds like it might be like that.
- owens99 9y ago
  > The thing is, this is the sort of thing people _actually say_ about p/m fit Just because lot's of people say it, doesn't make it any less wrong or misguided. In my mind, it's kind of like the "great man theory" from the 19th century in that is fails to go deeper into the issue and take a critical analysis of what's really happening [0]. There are many amazing techniques that are 10x more rigorous than this statement, which we've only scratched the surface of for testing Product/Market Fit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory
  - jkuria 9y ago
    Btw, this reminds me of this Henry Kissinger quotation: "The attribute of greatness is reserved for leaders from whose time onward history can be told only in terms of their achievements."

boffinism 9y ago

> "The true test of product/market fit is whether or not it's obvious you have product/market fit." The thing is, this is the sort of thing people _actually say_ about p/m fit. E.g. Marc Andreessen: "you can always feel product/market fit when it’s happening"[0]. It might feel redundant, tautological and unhelpful, but there are a heck of a lot of startups who are really, really trying to convince themselves they're ready for the next step because "I think we've got product/market fit - I mean, we got that pilot with a big corporate, didn't we?". Statements like this are a reminder to bring over-optimistic entrepreneurs back down to earth and remind them there's still work to do. [0] https://a16z.com/2017/02/18/12-things-about-product-market-fit/ https://a16z.com/2017/02/18/12-things-about-product-market-f...

ekidd 9y ago
> The thing is, this is the sort of thing people _actually say_ about p/m fit. E.g. Marc Andreessen: "you can always feel product/market fit when it’s happening"[0]. I've consulted for quite a few startups, and the successful ones really do feel different. Are there lines of people standing outside the booth at trade shows trying to write 5-figure checks? Are the sales people bringing in big contracts so quickly that people start mixing them up in conversation? Is engineering constantly struggling to keep up with ridiculous growth? Mind you, not all of these companies succeed. Some find themselves trapped in a market that can't sustain growth. Others are mismanaged, or ultimately suffer from too much churn. Sometimes Google moves into the market and everything gets harder. But once you've seen very aggressive customer demand, it's pretty obvious.
- bald 9y ago
  Can you please confirm that you have really experienced these scenarios multiple times? In which geography? Can you give names of the companies? This would TOTALLY redefine my personal definition of product-market fit. Thanks!
  - woah 9y ago
    A poster above wrote that Slack had 10x yearly growth, that sounds like it might be like that.
owens99 9y ago
> The thing is, this is the sort of thing people _actually say_ about p/m fit Just because lot's of people say it, doesn't make it any less wrong or misguided. In my mind, it's kind of like the "great man theory" from the 19th century in that is fails to go deeper into the issue and take a critical analysis of what's really happening [0]. There are many amazing techniques that are 10x more rigorous than this statement, which we've only scratched the surface of for testing Product/Market Fit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory
- jkuria 9y ago
  Btw, this reminds me of this Henry Kissinger quotation: "The attribute of greatness is reserved for leaders from whose time onward history can be told only in terms of their achievements."