6 ms·

> While many spores on Earth can survive that kind of extreme heat, none have yet been discovered that can reproduce in those conditions, much less require it t

by mitko 16y ago

> While many spores on Earth can survive that kind of extreme heat, none have yet been discovered that can reproduce in those conditions, much less require it to begin reproducing. Much less than none?

jeromec 16y ago
Replace "much less" with "let alone".
- carbocation 16y ago
  As I think you're alluding, "much less" is idiomatic English, and is used correctly in the article. Basically, it means "certainly not." "Let alone" is also idiomatic English so might not clarify things if the parent was unfamiliar with "much less."
  - jeromec 16y ago
    It didn't occur to me that the source of the OP's confusion might be that he/she is a non-native English speaker. The "much less" idiom simply seemed a poor choice to use in a sentence focusing on quantities.
bluesmoon 16y ago
s/much less/to say nothing of/ It's a common colloquialism that we use in that part of the world.
carbocation 16y ago
>He says the cells - inert at room temperature - begin to reproduce at 121C. ... While many spores on Earth can survive that kind of extreme heat, none have yet been discovered that can reproduce in those conditions, much less require it to begin reproducing. Right, except there is a word for those organisms, some of which do thrive at those temperatures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile (Specifically, organisms are known that grow at up to 122 deg Celsius.) Did this newspaper do any actual research before making those claims?
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > Did this newspaper do any actual research before making those claims? I wouldn't fault the newspaper as much as I would fault the original research.
  - anigbrowl 16y ago
    I'm starting to wonder if you read the paper or just glanced at it. 1. INTRODUCTION Most forms of life on Earth are adapted to growth within the temperature range, 10-45C. Microorganisms, known as thermophiles, however, grow optimally between 45C and 70C. Recently novel microbes, growing at temperatures above 80C have ben reported, and the upper temperature limit for growth has been extended to 113C and 121C by the discovery of Pyrolobus fumarii and “strain 121”, both having been isolated from hydrothermal vents (Kashefi and Lovley, 2003). Stetter (1992) termed these newly discovered microorganisms “hyperthermophiles”. There also exist in the literature disputed claims that bacteria, isolated from black smokers can grow at 250C (Baross and Deming, 1983). Louis and Kumar (2003) also reported that red cells which fell in so-called “Red Rain” over at Kerala in India (and which are studied here) could replicate at 300 C (Louis and Kumar, 2003, 2006), a claim that needs to be verified independently if it is to gain acceptance. Wickramasingh and Wainwright were publicly critical of the earlier claims made by Louis and Kumar in 2003. This paper investigates one aspect of those claims by testing whether any growth of these cells take place, and if so whether it can occur at high temperatures. The answer to both those questions is 'yes'. It's reasonable to begin by investigating whether the phenomenon occurs at the known upper temperature bound mentioned in the first citation, and to solicit confirmation of that result, before investigating other conditions for growth whose very possibility is speculative at present. I don't know why you're ragging on this paper so much. The news report is trash but the paper is cautious (indeed the Louis papers are a good deal more cautious than their linkbaity titles might suggest). Even if further study determines that that the cells are definitely terrestrial, the fact that such 'extremophiles' are not confined to extreme environments like the walls of volcanoes or undersea is itself news.
jwecker 16y ago
Well _I_ thought it was witty enough. cheers (:

by mitko 16y ago

jeromec 16y ago

Replace "much less" with "let alone".

carbocation 16y ago
As I think you're alluding, "much less" is idiomatic English, and is used correctly in the article. Basically, it means "certainly not." "Let alone" is also idiomatic English so might not clarify things if the parent was unfamiliar with "much less."
- jeromec 16y ago
  It didn't occur to me that the source of the OP's confusion might be that he/she is a non-native English speaker. The "much less" idiom simply seemed a poor choice to use in a sentence focusing on quantities.

bluesmoon 16y ago

s/much less/to say nothing of/ It's a common colloquialism that we use in that part of the world.

carbocation 16y ago

>He says the cells - inert at room temperature - begin to reproduce at 121C. ... While many spores on Earth can survive that kind of extreme heat, none have yet been discovered that can reproduce in those conditions, much less require it to begin reproducing. Right, except there is a word for those organisms, some of which do thrive at those temperatures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile (Specifically, organisms are known that grow at up to 122 deg Celsius.) Did this newspaper do any actual research before making those claims?

jacquesm 16y ago
> Did this newspaper do any actual research before making those claims? I wouldn't fault the newspaper as much as I would fault the original research.
- anigbrowl 16y ago
  I'm starting to wonder if you read the paper or just glanced at it. 1. INTRODUCTION Most forms of life on Earth are adapted to growth within the temperature range, 10-45C. Microorganisms, known as thermophiles, however, grow optimally between 45C and 70C. Recently novel microbes, growing at temperatures above 80C have ben reported, and the upper temperature limit for growth has been extended to 113C and 121C by the discovery of Pyrolobus fumarii and “strain 121”, both having been isolated from hydrothermal vents (Kashefi and Lovley, 2003). Stetter (1992) termed these newly discovered microorganisms “hyperthermophiles”. There also exist in the literature disputed claims that bacteria, isolated from black smokers can grow at 250C (Baross and Deming, 1983). Louis and Kumar (2003) also reported that red cells which fell in so-called “Red Rain” over at Kerala in India (and which are studied here) could replicate at 300 C (Louis and Kumar, 2003, 2006), a claim that needs to be verified independently if it is to gain acceptance. Wickramasingh and Wainwright were publicly critical of the earlier claims made by Louis and Kumar in 2003. This paper investigates one aspect of those claims by testing whether any growth of these cells take place, and if so whether it can occur at high temperatures. The answer to both those questions is 'yes'. It's reasonable to begin by investigating whether the phenomenon occurs at the known upper temperature bound mentioned in the first citation, and to solicit confirmation of that result, before investigating other conditions for growth whose very possibility is speculative at present. I don't know why you're ragging on this paper so much. The news report is trash but the paper is cautious (indeed the Louis papers are a good deal more cautious than their linkbaity titles might suggest). Even if further study determines that that the cells are definitely terrestrial, the fact that such 'extremophiles' are not confined to extreme environments like the walls of volcanoes or undersea is itself news.

jwecker 16y ago

Well _I_ thought it was witty enough. cheers (: