7 ms·

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario.

danielmg 9y ago
As a father of someone who is about on the middle of the spectrum, I kind of agree. I couldn't separate his personality from his ASD - however if something could alleviate things like the stress he gets from sensory overload then that would be great.
lev99 9y ago
Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.
- jacob019 9y ago
  That should be between the parents and doctors.
  - cbhl 9y ago
    One of the concerns about treatments for ASD and ADHD is that parents could be incentivized to do what is convenient for them, rather than what is best for the child.
    - jacob019 9y ago
      Parents don't prescribe drugs, doctors do. No system is perfect but I trust doctors and parents to do a better job than politicians and social workers when it comes to deciding what's best for each unique child.
      - scardine 9y ago
        We are talking about lifetime medication here so there is a huge incentive for drug companies to campaign for chemical solutions. Not so long doctors prescribed lobotomies for trouble-makers. Parent is correct here.
- scardine 9y ago
  It is complex indeed, specially for borderline cases. Looks like my son is landing on the functional side of the spectrum but it is always a coin toss. He will be 5 in May and is doing great attending a regular school although he is fortunate enough to have a dedicated tutor with him in class. If he was unable to speak I consider medication.
whatshisface 9y ago
I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them? Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less social influence acting on one's self (due to both slower learning and isolation). Would we consider them a fundamental part of the person, or just evidence of areas that the person still can grow in?
- chki 9y ago
  This touches on the fundamental debate whether autism is a disease or not. Your comment and especially comparing autism to not being able to read implies that but I personally think there might be parts of the autistic spectrum that do not fall under that definition.
  - CobrastanJorji 9y ago
    Autism is especially difficult to categorize as a disease or even a negative, but even when you can relatively easily label something as a technical disability, like deafness, there are perfectly valid reasons why the folks affected would be pretty strongly opposed to a cure. Any issue pertaining to identity is always going to be a very sensitive one.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - Varcht 9y ago
    I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits, at least on the lower end of the spectrum. Modifying genes for "ideal" traits in humans seems like a bad idea to me...
    - dsacco 9y ago
gregknicholson 9y ago
This was my first reaction too. From the perspective of the person who would be taking this treatment, this sounds less like “alleviating symptoms” and more like adding an extra sense or altering their perception. The Deaf community have been handling a similar issue for a while — see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant#Criticism_and_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant#Criticism_and...
- colordrops 9y ago
  Whether a condition is labeled a disease is less important than whether it affects your ability to function and be happy, so definitely should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Waterluvian 9y ago
I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the drugs as a switch I could flip when I needed the focused version of me. Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared, but I wonder if maybe ASD treatments could offer that option. Ie. Not to "fix" you but to give you a tool to be wielded under your own control.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- knz 9y ago
  > Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared My understanding is that ASD and ADHD are often found together. I don't have enough familiarity with either to know where one begins and the other starts. Thanks for sharing your perspective, as the parent of a child just diagnosed with both conditions it's useful!
  - exelius 9y ago
    They are often confused for each other, but I tend to think of ADHD as “ASD lite”. They have some of the same issues with focus and attention (esp with hyperfocus) but kids with ASD tend to show a lot more sensitivity to sensory perception. Loud noises, bright lights or uncomfortable textures become emotional outbursts. Hyperfocus also tends to be more of a constant state with ASD and can lead to emotional distress. Kids with ADHD get mad when they don’t get their way; kids with ASD get mad when they’re uncomfortable and don’t know how to express that or deal with it. It all depends on the severity of the ASD though as to how constant it is. I do almost feel a diagnosis of both is redundant though.
    - Waterluvian 9y ago
      Very interesting. I never thought of that before. I certainly have no traits I'd consider on the autism spectrum. I just couldn't focus. Sit me quietly in 5th grade with a book and I'd read a page and have absorbed none of it because my brain wandered. I'd ask to go to the washroom just to get out of my desk and take the exciting trip to the washroom. Teachers eventually started asking if I had problems because I'd ask to go to the washroom 7 or 8 times a day.
jacob019 9y ago
Our personalities can change dramatically as we age and yet we retain our sense of individuality. People struggle to be stonger and if medicine can help then it should. If it's not right for everyone, that's okay.
paulddraper 9y ago
> outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario. And I imagine that's what anyone older than a young child would do. If coffee makes it so you can't sleep, don't drink coffee.
smsm42 9y ago
I think it depends on how bad it is. If it's in a way that a person is introverted and has some peculiar communication style, that's one thing and if the person can not go outside, visit public places, hold a job, get an education, etc. then it's a different thing. I imagine some people would very welcome it, some would stay away from it.
txsh 9y ago
It's something everybody else would want because its unreasonably difficult to deal with autistic people. I have sympathy for those who can't help it but that sympathy evaporates the second there's a cure.
shagie 9y ago
This is the topic of the book "Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon - the self identity of someone who has high-functioning autistism as an adult and the possibility of having it cured. This also touches on the community that forms for people with a particular disorder or disability (e.g. the deaf community, the blind community being two that come to mind the most easily with their own culture).
leekyle333 9y ago
I found this NYT article from a while back fascinating. Basically this guy has TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) and he starts feeling more emotion. He discovers his wife is super controlling and ends up getting a divorce. He's not sure how much better his life actually gets from this "cure". https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-autism-treatment-cost-me-my-marriage/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-au...
- watwut 9y ago
  Neurotypical kids learn to deal with seeing others emotions whole their lives - he got suddenly thrown into sea and got overwhelmed. For that matter, so were his closest friends.
Angostura 9y ago
> I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario. I think that's exactly the value. Once you've tried it out, you'll be able to make an informed choice. I certainly wouldn't presume to choose for you, and I hope no-one else would do so either. The "disadvantage" is that the article repeatedly calls the effects "long lasting"
Singletoned 9y ago
> if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will be very attractive I think this is the key point. Some of us are high-functioning and have found ways to operate in normal society, but many people are effectively crippled by their autism. High-functioning autism has many beneficial side effects, and I would be loath to give them up. (For example, even just the fact that you see things differently to the people around can be really useful).

danielmg 9y ago

As a father of someone who is about on the middle of the spectrum, I kind of agree. I couldn't separate his personality from his ASD - however if something could alleviate things like the stress he gets from sensory overload then that would be great.

lev99 9y ago

Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.

jacob019 9y ago
That should be between the parents and doctors.
- cbhl 9y ago
  One of the concerns about treatments for ASD and ADHD is that parents could be incentivized to do what is convenient for them, rather than what is best for the child.
  - jacob019 9y ago
    Parents don't prescribe drugs, doctors do. No system is perfect but I trust doctors and parents to do a better job than politicians and social workers when it comes to deciding what's best for each unique child.
    - scardine 9y ago
      We are talking about lifetime medication here so there is a huge incentive for drug companies to campaign for chemical solutions. Not so long doctors prescribed lobotomies for trouble-makers. Parent is correct here.
scardine 9y ago
It is complex indeed, specially for borderline cases. Looks like my son is landing on the functional side of the spectrum but it is always a coin toss. He will be 5 in May and is doing great attending a regular school although he is fortunate enough to have a dedicated tutor with him in class. If he was unable to speak I consider medication.

whatshisface 9y ago

I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them? Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less social influence acting on one's self (due to both slower learning and isolation). Would we consider them a fundamental part of the person, or just evidence of areas that the person still can grow in?

chki 9y ago
This touches on the fundamental debate whether autism is a disease or not. Your comment and especially comparing autism to not being able to read implies that but I personally think there might be parts of the autistic spectrum that do not fall under that definition.
- CobrastanJorji 9y ago
  Autism is especially difficult to categorize as a disease or even a negative, but even when you can relatively easily label something as a technical disability, like deafness, there are perfectly valid reasons why the folks affected would be pretty strongly opposed to a cure. Any issue pertaining to identity is always going to be a very sensitive one.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Varcht 9y ago
  I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits, at least on the lower end of the spectrum. Modifying genes for "ideal" traits in humans seems like a bad idea to me...
  - dsacco 9y ago

gregknicholson 9y ago

This was my first reaction too. From the perspective of the person who would be taking this treatment, this sounds less like “alleviating symptoms” and more like adding an extra sense or altering their perception. The Deaf community have been handling a similar issue for a while — see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant#Criticism_and_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant#Criticism_and...

colordrops 9y ago
Whether a condition is labeled a disease is less important than whether it affects your ability to function and be happy, so definitely should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

Waterluvian 9y ago

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the drugs as a switch I could flip when I needed the focused version of me. Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared, but I wonder if maybe ASD treatments could offer that option. Ie. Not to "fix" you but to give you a tool to be wielded under your own control.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
knz 9y ago
> Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared My understanding is that ASD and ADHD are often found together. I don't have enough familiarity with either to know where one begins and the other starts. Thanks for sharing your perspective, as the parent of a child just diagnosed with both conditions it's useful!
- exelius 9y ago
  They are often confused for each other, but I tend to think of ADHD as “ASD lite”. They have some of the same issues with focus and attention (esp with hyperfocus) but kids with ASD tend to show a lot more sensitivity to sensory perception. Loud noises, bright lights or uncomfortable textures become emotional outbursts. Hyperfocus also tends to be more of a constant state with ASD and can lead to emotional distress. Kids with ADHD get mad when they don’t get their way; kids with ASD get mad when they’re uncomfortable and don’t know how to express that or deal with it. It all depends on the severity of the ASD though as to how constant it is. I do almost feel a diagnosis of both is redundant though.
  - Waterluvian 9y ago
    Very interesting. I never thought of that before. I certainly have no traits I'd consider on the autism spectrum. I just couldn't focus. Sit me quietly in 5th grade with a book and I'd read a page and have absorbed none of it because my brain wandered. I'd ask to go to the washroom just to get out of my desk and take the exciting trip to the washroom. Teachers eventually started asking if I had problems because I'd ask to go to the washroom 7 or 8 times a day.

jacob019 9y ago

Our personalities can change dramatically as we age and yet we retain our sense of individuality. People struggle to be stonger and if medicine can help then it should. If it's not right for everyone, that's okay.

paulddraper 9y ago

> outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario. And I imagine that's what anyone older than a young child would do. If coffee makes it so you can't sleep, don't drink coffee.

smsm42 9y ago

I think it depends on how bad it is. If it's in a way that a person is introverted and has some peculiar communication style, that's one thing and if the person can not go outside, visit public places, hold a job, get an education, etc. then it's a different thing. I imagine some people would very welcome it, some would stay away from it.

txsh 9y ago

It's something everybody else would want because its unreasonably difficult to deal with autistic people. I have sympathy for those who can't help it but that sympathy evaporates the second there's a cure.

shagie 9y ago

This is the topic of the book "Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon - the self identity of someone who has high-functioning autistism as an adult and the possibility of having it cured. This also touches on the community that forms for people with a particular disorder or disability (e.g. the deaf community, the blind community being two that come to mind the most easily with their own culture).

leekyle333 9y ago

I found this NYT article from a while back fascinating. Basically this guy has TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) and he starts feeling more emotion. He discovers his wife is super controlling and ends up getting a divorce. He's not sure how much better his life actually gets from this "cure". https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-autism-treatment-cost-me-my-marriage/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-au...

watwut 9y ago
Neurotypical kids learn to deal with seeing others emotions whole their lives - he got suddenly thrown into sea and got overwhelmed. For that matter, so were his closest friends.

Angostura 9y ago

> I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario. I think that's exactly the value. Once you've tried it out, you'll be able to make an informed choice. I certainly wouldn't presume to choose for you, and I hope no-one else would do so either. The "disadvantage" is that the article repeatedly calls the effects "long lasting"

Singletoned 9y ago

> if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will be very attractive I think this is the key point. Some of us are high-functioning and have found ways to operate in normal society, but many people are effectively crippled by their autism. High-functioning autism has many beneficial side effects, and I would be loath to give them up. (For example, even just the fact that you see things differently to the people around can be really useful).