10 ms·

If you are interested in the link between human evolution and food, I highly recommend the documentary 'Cooked', by Michael Pollan: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt

by fauria 9y ago

If you are interested in the link between human evolution and food, I highly recommend the documentary 'Cooked', by Michael Pollan: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5347906/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5347906/

devmunchies 9y ago
One of the things that bothers me most about modern food culture is the lack of reverence for the animal that was slaughtered for you to enjoy. With that said, I actually think he did a good job showing gratitude for the animal in that docu-series. Its the least meat eaters can do for themselves. (I follow the plant-based diet)
- subpixel 9y ago
  On that note, the cover of this very popular book makes my skin crawl: https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Her-Pig-Recipes-Stories/dp/0062003968 https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Her-Pig-Recipes-Stories/dp/00620... Not because the pig is dead. I have no bacon if the pig is not dead. But because it's draped over her shoulders like a garland.
  - megaman22 9y ago
    That's sort of the only ergonomic way for one person to carry a dressed animal of that size. It's just a fireman's carry.
- euyyn 9y ago
  How should I properly revere the plant that was killed for me to enjoy, if I followed the plant-based diet?
  - devmunchies 9y ago
    I'll respond to your tu quoque with some very relevant quotes. Charles Darwin: "There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties . . . The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." Leo Tolstoy: "A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral." Carl Sagan: "Humans–who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals–have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and “animals” is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them–without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."
    - mushbino 9y ago
      Me "I like the taste of meat."
      - lathiat 9y ago
        mmm bacon
      - devmunchies 9y ago
        so does everyone. That’s what makes it a noble cause.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      I wonder how other carnivores would philosophize about their prey. And yes, humans obviously aren't obligate carnivores. But just as obviously, we aren't obligate herbivores either.
      - devmunchies 9y ago
        Well, we can’t really eat raw meat without getting sick and I don’t think raw meat is appetizing to many people. We’re kind of in a class of our own. Another relevant quote: Plutarch: “There is nobody that is willing to eat even a lifeless and a dead thing even as it is; so they boil it, and roast it, and alter it by fire and medicines, as it were, changing and quenching the slaughtered gore with thousands of sweet sauces, that the palate being thereby deceived may admit of such uncouth fare.”
        mirimir 9y ago
        Ummm, raw tuna is very tasty. Venison too.
        emmanuel_1234 9y ago
        > ell, we can’t really eat raw meat without getting sick and I don’t think raw meat is appetizing to many people. We’re kind of in a class of our own. Few other animals have any kind of control over fire. Steak tartare, raw eggs and sashimi are delicious.
  - jkmcf 9y ago
    Look to the Native Americans. Or, at least some of them. Give thanks to things the world gives to you.
- Trundle 9y ago
  Would the appropriate way to show reverence for the animal be not slaughtering it? Adding hollow lip service doesn't really seem like an improvement.
  - devmunchies 9y ago
    That’s why I said “Its the least meat eaters can do for themselves.” True gratitude is not hollow lip service. It should influence behavior. Sure, It makes no difference to the animal, but maybe it will cause someone to eat less of it or be more supportive of vegans/vegetarian efforts.
    - Trundle 9y ago
      That's the thing though. The behavior change is to not eat meat. If I care so little for this thing that I'm willing to have it enslaved and slaughtered for my mild culinary amusement, what is there realistically to do other than pay hollow lip service? If we gave enough of a shit to do anything of substance, we just wouldn't eat the animals.
- nitwit005 9y ago
  I wouldn't particularly feel better if the person who murdered and ate me felt a sense of reverence for me.
  - devmunchies 9y ago
    Reverence isn’t for the dead. It’s for the living. If it’s true, it should influence your decisions, as it continues to do for me.
- cko 9y ago
  So plants don’t have feelings and animals do? That’s what I used to believe, but then I read this article: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/giant-viruses-found-austrian-sewage-fuel-debate-over-potential-fourth-domain-life http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/giant-viruses-found-a... This got me thinking... How do we determine which organisms feel pain? Presence of a central nervous system? What about jellyfish or octopi or lobsters? Kingdom animalia? Why not bacteria or plants? They reproduce and have some sort of consciousness. Plants bend towards sunlight. I used to consider myself Buddhist so I still don’t kill any living beings as a habit... not even mosquitos. But now that I think about it, I have no problems killing bacteria or viruses. I consume a lot of pea protein powder - mainly for aesthetic reasons - am I being unethical?
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    It's not a great solution, but it's the one that mostly sort of works for me: I tend to think of the evolutionary divergence tree as a bit of a family tree. I absolutely would never eat our brothers/sisters in the hominids and apes/chimpanzees. I've been growing increasingly concerned about our relationships with and our eating of our first cousins, the other mammals (pigs, cows, etc). I'm less concerned about our second/third cousins the avian dinosaurs (chicken, turkey), and fish/crustaceans. I don't worry about distant cousins in the plants, and fungi families. Bacteria, viruses, insects are pretty far removed from us on the evolutionary family tree. It's certainly complicated to think of it as a moral spectrum, with no easy/black-and-white answers, but that certainly seems to be the case. At some point I suppose you just have to make rules of thumb, and live with what makes you most comfortable/happy as best you see fit. Minimizing others' suffering is certainly a lofty goal, just don't mistake the perfect of "eliminate all suffering" with the good of "eliminate what suffering I can as best I am able".
    - cko 9y ago
      I think that’s the conclusion I ultimately reached. At one point I have to choose my principles, or rules of thumb, and realize that objectively, they’re going to be arbitrary, and intimately connected to my own set of circumstances most of which I had no control over.

by fauria 9y ago

devmunchies 9y ago

One of the things that bothers me most about modern food culture is the lack of reverence for the animal that was slaughtered for you to enjoy. With that said, I actually think he did a good job showing gratitude for the animal in that docu-series. Its the least meat eaters can do for themselves. (I follow the plant-based diet)

subpixel 9y ago
On that note, the cover of this very popular book makes my skin crawl: https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Her-Pig-Recipes-Stories/dp/0062003968 https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Her-Pig-Recipes-Stories/dp/00620... Not because the pig is dead. I have no bacon if the pig is not dead. But because it's draped over her shoulders like a garland.
- megaman22 9y ago
  That's sort of the only ergonomic way for one person to carry a dressed animal of that size. It's just a fireman's carry.
euyyn 9y ago
How should I properly revere the plant that was killed for me to enjoy, if I followed the plant-based diet?
- devmunchies 9y ago
  I'll respond to your tu quoque with some very relevant quotes. Charles Darwin: "There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties . . . The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." Leo Tolstoy: "A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral." Carl Sagan: "Humans–who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals–have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and “animals” is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them–without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."
  - mushbino 9y ago
    Me "I like the taste of meat."
    - lathiat 9y ago
      mmm bacon
    - devmunchies 9y ago
      so does everyone. That’s what makes it a noble cause.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    I wonder how other carnivores would philosophize about their prey. And yes, humans obviously aren't obligate carnivores. But just as obviously, we aren't obligate herbivores either.
    - devmunchies 9y ago
      Well, we can’t really eat raw meat without getting sick and I don’t think raw meat is appetizing to many people. We’re kind of in a class of our own. Another relevant quote: Plutarch: “There is nobody that is willing to eat even a lifeless and a dead thing even as it is; so they boil it, and roast it, and alter it by fire and medicines, as it were, changing and quenching the slaughtered gore with thousands of sweet sauces, that the palate being thereby deceived may admit of such uncouth fare.”
      - mirimir 9y ago
        Ummm, raw tuna is very tasty. Venison too.
      - emmanuel_1234 9y ago
        > ell, we can’t really eat raw meat without getting sick and I don’t think raw meat is appetizing to many people. We’re kind of in a class of our own. Few other animals have any kind of control over fire. Steak tartare, raw eggs and sashimi are delicious.
- jkmcf 9y ago
  Look to the Native Americans. Or, at least some of them. Give thanks to things the world gives to you.
Trundle 9y ago
Would the appropriate way to show reverence for the animal be not slaughtering it? Adding hollow lip service doesn't really seem like an improvement.
- devmunchies 9y ago
  That’s why I said “Its the least meat eaters can do for themselves.” True gratitude is not hollow lip service. It should influence behavior. Sure, It makes no difference to the animal, but maybe it will cause someone to eat less of it or be more supportive of vegans/vegetarian efforts.
  - Trundle 9y ago
    That's the thing though. The behavior change is to not eat meat. If I care so little for this thing that I'm willing to have it enslaved and slaughtered for my mild culinary amusement, what is there realistically to do other than pay hollow lip service? If we gave enough of a shit to do anything of substance, we just wouldn't eat the animals.
nitwit005 9y ago
I wouldn't particularly feel better if the person who murdered and ate me felt a sense of reverence for me.
- devmunchies 9y ago
  Reverence isn’t for the dead. It’s for the living. If it’s true, it should influence your decisions, as it continues to do for me.
cko 9y ago
So plants don’t have feelings and animals do? That’s what I used to believe, but then I read this article: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/giant-viruses-found-austrian-sewage-fuel-debate-over-potential-fourth-domain-life http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/giant-viruses-found-a... This got me thinking... How do we determine which organisms feel pain? Presence of a central nervous system? What about jellyfish or octopi or lobsters? Kingdom animalia? Why not bacteria or plants? They reproduce and have some sort of consciousness. Plants bend towards sunlight. I used to consider myself Buddhist so I still don’t kill any living beings as a habit... not even mosquitos. But now that I think about it, I have no problems killing bacteria or viruses. I consume a lot of pea protein powder - mainly for aesthetic reasons - am I being unethical?
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  It's not a great solution, but it's the one that mostly sort of works for me: I tend to think of the evolutionary divergence tree as a bit of a family tree. I absolutely would never eat our brothers/sisters in the hominids and apes/chimpanzees. I've been growing increasingly concerned about our relationships with and our eating of our first cousins, the other mammals (pigs, cows, etc). I'm less concerned about our second/third cousins the avian dinosaurs (chicken, turkey), and fish/crustaceans. I don't worry about distant cousins in the plants, and fungi families. Bacteria, viruses, insects are pretty far removed from us on the evolutionary family tree. It's certainly complicated to think of it as a moral spectrum, with no easy/black-and-white answers, but that certainly seems to be the case. At some point I suppose you just have to make rules of thumb, and live with what makes you most comfortable/happy as best you see fit. Minimizing others' suffering is certainly a lofty goal, just don't mistake the perfect of "eliminate all suffering" with the good of "eliminate what suffering I can as best I am able".
  - cko 9y ago
    I think that’s the conclusion I ultimately reached. At one point I have to choose my principles, or rules of thumb, and realize that objectively, they’re going to be arbitrary, and intimately connected to my own set of circumstances most of which I had no control over.