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If folks really want to make sure they come back from the dead, they might also think about setting up proper incentives for performing the potentially highly l

If folks really want to make sure they come back from the dead, they might also think about setting up proper incentives for performing the potentially highly laborious process that resurrection might entail even 100+ years from now. It might be helpful to place a sort of back-to-life bounty on yourself, to be held in escrow, and only to be paid out upon successful resurrection. The bigger the bounty, the higher your de-facto priority in the queue. Let it collect interest and fund the ongoing administration of your bounty in the meantime. If you really want to make it stringent, make the bounty require a password that only that (deceased) person knows. Best case scenario they do such a good job resurrecting you that you still remember the password, or at worst there's an incentive to picking the fact out of your brain, which might be only slightly less difficult than doing the full resurrection.

jjr8 9y ago
Hmm, interesting. Assuming resurrecting you was easier than picking your brain, there would be the problem of you lying, both when you died and after you were brought back to life. How would they deal with that? I guess they could just kill you again. But would the threat of that happening in the future deter you from lying at time of death, when you have nothing else to lose? It seems like there would need to be system of proving possession of a password that would have to last 100 years. I have not thought through this kind of scenario (sorry!). Perhaps this has been considered before by those studying the problem in detail (e.g. science fiction authors)? What are the solutions?
- dhimes 9y ago
  Or the conjugate problem: people bringing you back before they really have the capability to do it well, and having you be some sort of invalid/derelict version of yourself. That's terrifying to me.
- sowbug 9y ago
  You're describing public-key cryptography. Sign a message to prove you know a private key that also authorizes the release of funds. This happens to be exactly the functionality of Bitcoin. It is debatable whether known public-key cryptography systems will survive attack for the amount of time under discussion here. I suspect the hack will be to extract the secret from the brain being resurrected, recover the funds, and toss the brain in the trash.
  - incompatible 9y ago
    It's pretty unlikely that any particular system like Bitcoin will still be around in 100 years. It would be difficult to think of any investment that will still be worth something in 100 years. Buried gold perhaps?
    - sowbug 9y ago
      Being able to upload a mind is effectively the same as immortality. I doubt wealth matters at all to immortal beings.
  - notahacker 9y ago
    A future in which adequately restoring the running processes of the 100 billion neurons of a partly-deteriorated human brain shorn of its body is less difficult than cracking early 2000s public key cryptography sounds like a future sufficiently unlikely to discount when making future plans...
    - sowbug 9y ago
      The comment you're replying to made the same point.
deegles 9y ago
Memorize a private key to a Crypto wallet and transfer all of your assets to it in the days leading up to uploading? And of course let everyone know that's the case beforehand!
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  Why would people 200 years into the future believe your assertion?
  - smallnamespace 9y ago
    If the crypto network is still around then the balances can be publicly verified.
    - prawn 9y ago
      What if you claim to reveal the password once you're alive, but don't? Or can claim you don't know it even if you do? What will people do then - kill you off again?
      - mygo 9y ago
        This assumes that the crypto network will still be worth anything by then. Who says any of the coins in existence right now will be worth anything even if cryptocurrency takes over?
- aaron_m04 9y ago
  What if it's cheaper to extract the key from your brain and dump the rest?
  - earenndil 9y ago
    It's unclear that that's possible, though.
    - 9y ago
incompatible 9y ago
"Highly laborious process": I guess if the technology was available to preform this process, then automating it would be relatively easy. The materials that make up a human are cheap enough. Edit: I read the article. So they are assuming in the future that they won't bother making a new human, but just load the brain state into a computer simulation, which would be even cheaper.
- mygo 9y ago
  Computers have yet to match many of the capabilities of the brain. Heck I have better image recognition when I’m drunk than all of Google’s image recognition nodes combined. Could a computer host a human mind to its full capacity?
  - joering2 9y ago
    Did you forget that any technology publicly known and available is about 20 years old? Im sure they are systems that can recognize image faster and more accurate than humans but its sort of a “product” you wont find by googling.
    - dfee 9y ago
      I did not know this. I assumed certain technology is more advanced in private industry or classified governmental programs, but I was unaware that my iPhone X is effectively a 1997 device.
      - incompatible 9y ago
        You can find research projects that haven't (yet) been commercialised. They exist only in prototype form that either isn't ready for mass production or isn't economically feasible. You see it all the time with things like memristors or the latest potential cure for cancer.
        dfee 9y ago
wl 9y ago
This would be difficult with the current legal system in most of the United States because of the rule against perpetuities[0]. Of course, jurisdiction shopping makes this easier in certain locales. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities
- hyperpallium 9y ago
  According to Larry Niven (Rammer), the courts will find the dead cannot own property. I observe there's a certain prejudice, in that law is written by the living. The other ideas of cryptocurrency/escrow/private keys would escape the law... until you tried to spend it legally. You might as well bury gold in a chest.
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    According to Douglas Adams, Hotblack Desiato once spent a year dead for tax reasons. http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Hotblack_Desiato http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Hotblack_Desiato
    - hyperpallium 9y ago
      DNA is strangely relevant here (as he often is): [...] I don't know what this great think I'm meant to be doing is, and it looks to me as if I was supposed not to know. And I resent that, right? "The old me knew. The old me cared. Fine, so far so hoopy. Except that the old me cared so much that he actually got inside his own brain - my own brain - and locked off the bits that knew and cared, because if I knew and cared I wouldn't be able to do it. I wouldn't be able to go and be President, and I wouldn't be able to steal this ship, which must be the important thing. "But this former self of mine killed himself off, didn't he, by changing my brain? OK, that was his choice. This new me has its own choices to make, and by a strange coincidence those choices involve not knowing and not caring about this big number, whatever it is. That's what he wanted, that's what he got. "Except this old self of mine tried to leave himself in control, leaving orders for me in the bit of my brain he locked off. Well, I don't want to know, and I don't want to hear them. That's my choice. I'm not going to be anybody's puppet, particularly not my own." Zaphod banged the console in fury, oblivious to the dumbfolded looks he was attracting. "The old me is dead!" he raved, "Killed himself! The dead shouldn't hang about trying to interfere with the living!"
dsnuh 9y ago
This sounds like it could be the premise for another book in Daniel Saurez's series Daemon and Freedom.
wnkrshm 9y ago
You have to bet on being among the first to be revived, i.e. to have one of the highest taking bounties but not the highest. You don't want to be the first but you want to be the tenth or so. Once the process takes off all the bounties will drastically lose their worth because such technology will likely disrupt a lot of what humans place value on.
aqme28 9y ago
This comment pairs great with the other top level comment that you could be subjected to inhuman amounts of torture. Why bother resurrecting you fully?
Zanni 9y ago
If they can bring your mind to life inside a computer, then you're essentially a simulation of yourself. In that case, how can you ever know that the person you're giving the password to is real? And that you haven't just been revived in a sandbox for the express purpose of getting your password, which they can then pass on themselves. Shades of Rick and Morty ...
- ketralnis 9y ago
  How do you know that’s not the case right now?

jjr8 9y ago

Hmm, interesting. Assuming resurrecting you was easier than picking your brain, there would be the problem of you lying, both when you died and after you were brought back to life. How would they deal with that? I guess they could just kill you again. But would the threat of that happening in the future deter you from lying at time of death, when you have nothing else to lose? It seems like there would need to be system of proving possession of a password that would have to last 100 years. I have not thought through this kind of scenario (sorry!). Perhaps this has been considered before by those studying the problem in detail (e.g. science fiction authors)? What are the solutions?

dhimes 9y ago
Or the conjugate problem: people bringing you back before they really have the capability to do it well, and having you be some sort of invalid/derelict version of yourself. That's terrifying to me.
sowbug 9y ago
You're describing public-key cryptography. Sign a message to prove you know a private key that also authorizes the release of funds. This happens to be exactly the functionality of Bitcoin. It is debatable whether known public-key cryptography systems will survive attack for the amount of time under discussion here. I suspect the hack will be to extract the secret from the brain being resurrected, recover the funds, and toss the brain in the trash.
- incompatible 9y ago
  It's pretty unlikely that any particular system like Bitcoin will still be around in 100 years. It would be difficult to think of any investment that will still be worth something in 100 years. Buried gold perhaps?
  - sowbug 9y ago
    Being able to upload a mind is effectively the same as immortality. I doubt wealth matters at all to immortal beings.
- notahacker 9y ago
  A future in which adequately restoring the running processes of the 100 billion neurons of a partly-deteriorated human brain shorn of its body is less difficult than cracking early 2000s public key cryptography sounds like a future sufficiently unlikely to discount when making future plans...
  - sowbug 9y ago
    The comment you're replying to made the same point.

deegles 9y ago

Memorize a private key to a Crypto wallet and transfer all of your assets to it in the days leading up to uploading? And of course let everyone know that's the case beforehand!

dingo_bat 9y ago
Why would people 200 years into the future believe your assertion?
- smallnamespace 9y ago
  If the crypto network is still around then the balances can be publicly verified.
  - prawn 9y ago
    What if you claim to reveal the password once you're alive, but don't? Or can claim you don't know it even if you do? What will people do then - kill you off again?
    - mygo 9y ago
      This assumes that the crypto network will still be worth anything by then. Who says any of the coins in existence right now will be worth anything even if cryptocurrency takes over?
aaron_m04 9y ago
What if it's cheaper to extract the key from your brain and dump the rest?
- earenndil 9y ago
  It's unclear that that's possible, though.
  - 9y ago

incompatible 9y ago

"Highly laborious process": I guess if the technology was available to preform this process, then automating it would be relatively easy. The materials that make up a human are cheap enough. Edit: I read the article. So they are assuming in the future that they won't bother making a new human, but just load the brain state into a computer simulation, which would be even cheaper.

mygo 9y ago
Computers have yet to match many of the capabilities of the brain. Heck I have better image recognition when I’m drunk than all of Google’s image recognition nodes combined. Could a computer host a human mind to its full capacity?
- joering2 9y ago
  Did you forget that any technology publicly known and available is about 20 years old? Im sure they are systems that can recognize image faster and more accurate than humans but its sort of a “product” you wont find by googling.
  - dfee 9y ago
    I did not know this. I assumed certain technology is more advanced in private industry or classified governmental programs, but I was unaware that my iPhone X is effectively a 1997 device.
    - incompatible 9y ago
      You can find research projects that haven't (yet) been commercialised. They exist only in prototype form that either isn't ready for mass production or isn't economically feasible. You see it all the time with things like memristors or the latest potential cure for cancer.
      - dfee 9y ago

wl 9y ago

This would be difficult with the current legal system in most of the United States because of the rule against perpetuities[0]. Of course, jurisdiction shopping makes this easier in certain locales. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities

hyperpallium 9y ago
According to Larry Niven (Rammer), the courts will find the dead cannot own property. I observe there's a certain prejudice, in that law is written by the living. The other ideas of cryptocurrency/escrow/private keys would escape the law... until you tried to spend it legally. You might as well bury gold in a chest.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  According to Douglas Adams, Hotblack Desiato once spent a year dead for tax reasons. http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Hotblack_Desiato http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Hotblack_Desiato
  - hyperpallium 9y ago
    DNA is strangely relevant here (as he often is): [...] I don't know what this great think I'm meant to be doing is, and it looks to me as if I was supposed not to know. And I resent that, right? "The old me knew. The old me cared. Fine, so far so hoopy. Except that the old me cared so much that he actually got inside his own brain - my own brain - and locked off the bits that knew and cared, because if I knew and cared I wouldn't be able to do it. I wouldn't be able to go and be President, and I wouldn't be able to steal this ship, which must be the important thing. "But this former self of mine killed himself off, didn't he, by changing my brain? OK, that was his choice. This new me has its own choices to make, and by a strange coincidence those choices involve not knowing and not caring about this big number, whatever it is. That's what he wanted, that's what he got. "Except this old self of mine tried to leave himself in control, leaving orders for me in the bit of my brain he locked off. Well, I don't want to know, and I don't want to hear them. That's my choice. I'm not going to be anybody's puppet, particularly not my own." Zaphod banged the console in fury, oblivious to the dumbfolded looks he was attracting. "The old me is dead!" he raved, "Killed himself! The dead shouldn't hang about trying to interfere with the living!"

dsnuh 9y ago

This sounds like it could be the premise for another book in Daniel Saurez's series Daemon and Freedom.

wnkrshm 9y ago

You have to bet on being among the first to be revived, i.e. to have one of the highest taking bounties but not the highest. You don't want to be the first but you want to be the tenth or so. Once the process takes off all the bounties will drastically lose their worth because such technology will likely disrupt a lot of what humans place value on.

aqme28 9y ago

This comment pairs great with the other top level comment that you could be subjected to inhuman amounts of torture. Why bother resurrecting you fully?

Zanni 9y ago

If they can bring your mind to life inside a computer, then you're essentially a simulation of yourself. In that case, how can you ever know that the person you're giving the password to is real? And that you haven't just been revived in a sandbox for the express purpose of getting your password, which they can then pass on themselves. Shades of Rick and Morty ...

ketralnis 9y ago
How do you know that’s not the case right now?