5 ms·

>I asked to talk to the store manager, she said there was nothing she could do. To me, the real problem with these systems is that relying on them too much remo

>I asked to talk to the store manager, she said there was nothing she could do. To me, the real problem with these systems is that relying on them too much removes the ability for people to provide good customer service. Funny thing, GDPR which is looked down here, has provisions concerning this problem: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-22-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-22-gdpr/ You can appeal automated decision making and companies have to provide you with such an option.

mgleason_3 9y ago
It's moronic. These retailers know whether you recently purchased the item you're returning. Why are they counting it against you?
- mattnewton 9y ago
  Agreed, this seems to turn a simple database lookup into a ml classification problem.. presumably this only happens for people who don’t provide a phone number or name?
- cookiecaper 9y ago
  Because recent buyers are among the prime suspects for abuse, since some people will exploit retailers' lenient return policies as a free rental service. They'll buy something expensive, use it a handful of times during the conventional 30-day return window, and then return the used, depreciated item to the store for a full refund. This item then has to be liquidated or refurbished, but even if it didn't, you've still probably lost the margin you made on it just by handling the return. Margins per unit are in typically in the realm of a few bucks, at best. Pennies count in retail. You can get away with this a few times, but more than that, and a backend system like this will flag you as a "serial returner" and instruct the staff to refuse your return. It'd be great if they could make it easy to allow managerial override, but unfortunately, many managers or other store employees work in cahoots with civilian accomplices to rip off the retailers with this type of scheme.
  - bkohlmann 9y ago
    I’m perplexed why this comment is being downvoted. I found it informative, plausible and well reasoned. That said, if there is evidence against the authors position, I’d love to see it to better help my understanding.
  - raincom 9y ago
    Yeah, that’s how expensive cameras were abused in old days with 30 day return policies and without restocking fees. Thanks to this, the return window is 14 days along with restocking fees for electronics items.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    I find it profoundly unlikely that anyone is risking their salaried positions to help neighbor bob free rent a few tools.
    - nickpsecurity 9y ago
      Walmart operates in a lot of areas where the jobs are all dead end, low paying, or treat workers poorly. They do a lot of that themselves. It's why they have high turnover and theft among employees. They still have high turnover and theft after upping their wages. I rarely see the same person twice at the local one. In such environments, the people who are used to pulling for each other with favors will certainly do things at the companies' expense for friends or in trade for anothers' items. They figure they'll be at another crap job in near future or just won't get prosecuted, that Walmart is a racket not giving them anything for their work, that they're corporate evil that deserve no sympathy, and so on so forth. So, why not get something in return or hook their friends up while they're there?" they'll ask. That's how some explained it to me that were fired for stealing or doing stuff for friends at various retail places. They're so good at risk assessment they tell people like me they barely know about what they do. It's unreal lol. Note: I ran into this stuff mostly in low-income areas both city and rural. Gets worse if the management treats workers worse.
  - nickpsecurity 9y ago
    "Because recent buyers are among the prime suspects for abuse, since some people will exploit retailers' lenient return policies as a free rental service. They'll buy something expensive, use it a handful of times during the conventional 30-day return window, and then return the used, depreciated item to the store for a full refund." I've met people who have bragged about doing that. So, it's a real thing. I always wondered if AutoZone's tool lending policy for customers was to just to help them or to partly counter people buying/returning tools just to fix an immediate problem. The main difference is the tool lending process requires them to hold your ID until you give the stuff back. Plus, it's a spare set in the back whose use doesn't reduce value of their main stuff. I bet Walmart gets hit with hundreds of thousands to millions a year worth of returns for one-off uses of their products alone. Especially automotive or home improvement.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  In every instance where they can verify you purchased it returning it is a snap.
wdr1 9y ago
I like the intent, but given the obvious loopholes, I'm doubtful this has the desired effect. It'll be interesting to see if this provision is actually doing anything in a year or so.
bigtunacan 9y ago
That’s great for Europe, but there is nothing similar in USA
- solomatov 9y ago
  There will be such a law, I am sure, and because companies abusing lack of law, the law will be draconian. Most likely, such law will be introduced after discovery of great abuse by one of market leaders.
candiodari 9y ago
Absolutely ! Store policy is : please write out your complaint about our returns decision in triplicate, and submit the first copy to our office in Chersky, Siberia, Russian Federation (tiny small detail: town only accessible during the summer months, and even then, it's a bit of a gamble). Opening hours are from 9:00 am to 9:01 am, 3 days out of every decade, announced 2 hours in advance.

mgleason_3 9y ago

It's moronic. These retailers know whether you recently purchased the item you're returning. Why are they counting it against you?

mattnewton 9y ago
Agreed, this seems to turn a simple database lookup into a ml classification problem.. presumably this only happens for people who don’t provide a phone number or name?
cookiecaper 9y ago
Because recent buyers are among the prime suspects for abuse, since some people will exploit retailers' lenient return policies as a free rental service. They'll buy something expensive, use it a handful of times during the conventional 30-day return window, and then return the used, depreciated item to the store for a full refund. This item then has to be liquidated or refurbished, but even if it didn't, you've still probably lost the margin you made on it just by handling the return. Margins per unit are in typically in the realm of a few bucks, at best. Pennies count in retail. You can get away with this a few times, but more than that, and a backend system like this will flag you as a "serial returner" and instruct the staff to refuse your return. It'd be great if they could make it easy to allow managerial override, but unfortunately, many managers or other store employees work in cahoots with civilian accomplices to rip off the retailers with this type of scheme.
- bkohlmann 9y ago
  I’m perplexed why this comment is being downvoted. I found it informative, plausible and well reasoned. That said, if there is evidence against the authors position, I’d love to see it to better help my understanding.
- raincom 9y ago
  Yeah, that’s how expensive cameras were abused in old days with 30 day return policies and without restocking fees. Thanks to this, the return window is 14 days along with restocking fees for electronics items.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  I find it profoundly unlikely that anyone is risking their salaried positions to help neighbor bob free rent a few tools.
  - nickpsecurity 9y ago
    Walmart operates in a lot of areas where the jobs are all dead end, low paying, or treat workers poorly. They do a lot of that themselves. It's why they have high turnover and theft among employees. They still have high turnover and theft after upping their wages. I rarely see the same person twice at the local one. In such environments, the people who are used to pulling for each other with favors will certainly do things at the companies' expense for friends or in trade for anothers' items. They figure they'll be at another crap job in near future or just won't get prosecuted, that Walmart is a racket not giving them anything for their work, that they're corporate evil that deserve no sympathy, and so on so forth. So, why not get something in return or hook their friends up while they're there?" they'll ask. That's how some explained it to me that were fired for stealing or doing stuff for friends at various retail places. They're so good at risk assessment they tell people like me they barely know about what they do. It's unreal lol. Note: I ran into this stuff mostly in low-income areas both city and rural. Gets worse if the management treats workers worse.
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  "Because recent buyers are among the prime suspects for abuse, since some people will exploit retailers' lenient return policies as a free rental service. They'll buy something expensive, use it a handful of times during the conventional 30-day return window, and then return the used, depreciated item to the store for a full refund." I've met people who have bragged about doing that. So, it's a real thing. I always wondered if AutoZone's tool lending policy for customers was to just to help them or to partly counter people buying/returning tools just to fix an immediate problem. The main difference is the tool lending process requires them to hold your ID until you give the stuff back. Plus, it's a spare set in the back whose use doesn't reduce value of their main stuff. I bet Walmart gets hit with hundreds of thousands to millions a year worth of returns for one-off uses of their products alone. Especially automotive or home improvement.
michaelmrose 9y ago
In every instance where they can verify you purchased it returning it is a snap.

wdr1 9y ago

I like the intent, but given the obvious loopholes, I'm doubtful this has the desired effect. It'll be interesting to see if this provision is actually doing anything in a year or so.

bigtunacan 9y ago

That’s great for Europe, but there is nothing similar in USA

solomatov 9y ago
There will be such a law, I am sure, and because companies abusing lack of law, the law will be draconian. Most likely, such law will be introduced after discovery of great abuse by one of market leaders.

candiodari 9y ago

Absolutely ! Store policy is : please write out your complaint about our returns decision in triplicate, and submit the first copy to our office in Chersky, Siberia, Russian Federation (tiny small detail: town only accessible during the summer months, and even then, it's a bit of a gamble). Opening hours are from 9:00 am to 9:01 am, 3 days out of every decade, announced 2 hours in advance.