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A new twist on an old game. I hear people ask why short-selling exists, but’s a good check against corruption but prone to it’s own abuses. Citron Research (a s

A new twist on an old game. I hear people ask why short-selling exists, but’s a good check against corruption but prone to it’s own abuses. Citron Research (a short-sell shop) is a good example of this— they savaged companies like NQ Mobile, Lumber Liquidators, etc. and make a bundle doing it. The security angle is a fascinating and concerning new development, however. That said it may encourage more secure practices (as opposed to theater) through the hardware/software lifecycle in response to serious fundamental design problems. It will also serve to increase the premium on 0days...

dsacco 9y ago
> It will also serve to increase the premium on 0days... I strongly doubt that. I've seen incredibly serious vulnerabilities I've reported firsthand have little to no impact on a company's valuation when publicized.
- kingbirdy 9y ago
  But did you create an entire website about the vulnerability, including graphics and headline-friendly names, as well as sending out briefings to major media outlets ahead of the disclosure? Because that's what this group did
  - dsacco 9y ago
    Admittedly no, but considering AMD is up ~3.85% as of this writing, I'm not sure I'd have benefitted from doing so.
askafriend 9y ago
Just look at what Citron Research did to Shopify last year. They tanked the stock from $120 to $93 just based on false accusations that they put out in a "report". Now Shopify is now closer to $150...so their plan worked.
- kbenson 9y ago
  > just based on false accusations that they put out in a "report". If it's false information, isn't that classic stock manipulation? I thought for it to be legal to make money on the stock it had to be both accurate and publicly available (if potentially hard to put together)?
  - askafriend 9y ago
    They make claims that are demonstrably...stupid. I don't know if there's a better, more nuanced word to use here. It's trolling in broad daylight from what I can tell. Watch the video and see for yourself: http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-shopify/ http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-sh... That video by itself tanked the stock for many many weeks, until they finally reported quarterly results and it started climbing again. I'm glad the CEO didn't feed the trolls by acknowledging this report in any depth. Also shows how irrational the stock market is in the short term.
boringg 9y ago
Citron Research? Total hack and the premise that they provide the market a value is a stretch at best. Sometimes right and lots of times incredibly wrong but makes money on investors panicking immediately.
philfrasty 9y ago
Do you know where the line is between what e.g. Citron Research is doing and what is considered slander? (I assume they walk a very thin line in order to not get sued) Their Shopify video [1] for example is not the typical „research report“ with lots of specifics but more of a personal opinion with rather broad accusations. [1] http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-shopify/ http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-sh...

dsacco 9y ago

> It will also serve to increase the premium on 0days... I strongly doubt that. I've seen incredibly serious vulnerabilities I've reported firsthand have little to no impact on a company's valuation when publicized.

kingbirdy 9y ago
But did you create an entire website about the vulnerability, including graphics and headline-friendly names, as well as sending out briefings to major media outlets ahead of the disclosure? Because that's what this group did
- dsacco 9y ago
  Admittedly no, but considering AMD is up ~3.85% as of this writing, I'm not sure I'd have benefitted from doing so.

askafriend 9y ago

Just look at what Citron Research did to Shopify last year. They tanked the stock from $120 to $93 just based on false accusations that they put out in a "report". Now Shopify is now closer to $150...so their plan worked.

kbenson 9y ago
> just based on false accusations that they put out in a "report". If it's false information, isn't that classic stock manipulation? I thought for it to be legal to make money on the stock it had to be both accurate and publicly available (if potentially hard to put together)?
- askafriend 9y ago
  They make claims that are demonstrably...stupid. I don't know if there's a better, more nuanced word to use here. It's trolling in broad daylight from what I can tell. Watch the video and see for yourself: http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-shopify/ http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-sh... That video by itself tanked the stock for many many weeks, until they finally reported quarterly results and it started climbing again. I'm glad the CEO didn't feed the trolls by acknowledging this report in any depth. Also shows how irrational the stock market is in the short term.

boringg 9y ago

Citron Research? Total hack and the premise that they provide the market a value is a stretch at best. Sometimes right and lots of times incredibly wrong but makes money on investors panicking immediately.

philfrasty 9y ago

Do you know where the line is between what e.g. Citron Research is doing and what is considered slander? (I assume they walk a very thin line in order to not get sued) Their Shopify video [1] for example is not the typical „research report“ with lots of specifics but more of a personal opinion with rather broad accusations. [1] http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-shopify/ http://citronresearch.com/citron-exposes-the-dark-side-of-sh...