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> I get that office tech workers aren't the factory assembly line workers for which these laws were originally designed but the exclusions need to come from the

> I get that office tech workers aren't the factory assembly line workers for which these laws were originally designed but the exclusions need to come from the other direction. Maybe they're not operating the machines, but even in the U.S., white-collar engineers at a fab will often find themselves working north of 60h every week. Because you're salaried, there's no overtime pay. Also, you'll carry a pager and be responsible for answering it 24 hours a day, every day. And since the fab doesn't stop on weekends, you either work a shift or rotate weekends with your team. PTO is usually approved, but using a substantial fraction of it will result in a bad review. A capped portion of the remainder gets cashed out at the end of the year, and the rest evaporates. And that's the United States. I'm sure China takes this to a whole other level. (Source: recovering semiconductor process engineer.)

anoonmoose 9y ago
Also, you'll make 2-3x the average salary in the US. TANSTAAFL
- sevensor 9y ago
  True that. It's still a backup plan if I'm ever really desperate for money. It's brutal if you have a family though.
- avs733 9y ago
  Honestly its not worth it. I know that is a privileged position, but the quality of life was so bad that I just ended up with a ton of savings that I used to take 6 months off and travel and decompress/deal with all the mental health stuff resulting from the job after I quit.
- macNchz 9y ago
  There are quite many routes to making 2-3x the national average salary that don’t require 24/7 pager duty. I’ve done on-call rotations, but being ‘on’ nonstop sounds like torture and a recipe for burnout.
  - avs733 9y ago
    I did 11 months of 24x7. My managers were so normed to it they actually documented it. No one seemed to notice my contract called for that time to be compensated. After I ended my employment they seemed shocked when I asked for that compensation to be paid out. They then denied that I had been 'actually on call' (note: managers, don't lie to your HR department - especially the investigations people). Thankfully I had documented all the listings of me being on call and pointed out that their policy required an on call engineer to be available and noted that no one else in the group was certified to be on cal. We settled before I had to take it to court.
    - sevensor 9y ago
      Yikes, you were the only person in your group who was competent to answer pages? We had several, and there were a number of factors that determined who would get paged first for a given issue, including whether you were in a fight with manufacturing. (Don't ever get in a fight with people whose job description includes paging you at odd hours.) I usually got woken up a couple times a week. Sounds like you had it a lot worse.
avs733 9y ago
>(Source: recovering semiconductor process engineer.) I nearly had a panic attack reading this. Exactly the same background and experience working in FABs. I honestly had a moment where I thought I may have had a had some form of break and written this under a different account. On call at family weddings, asked to cancel vacations at the last minute (that was the final straw for me), working 6-6 followed by calls at 1am...yeah, no more. US employment laws leave a lot a lot to be desired. I can't even fathom those in China.
- sevensor 9y ago
  Glad I'm not the only semiconductor industry refugee on here! Most people don't believe half of my stories about it. I don't even tell the other half.
  - avs733 9y ago
    I did a talk at a conference (it pops up on HN every year or so) that was basically storytelling from my semiconductor days. If I hadn't lived some of it, I would find it hard to believe. My 'favorite' story was three years after I left the industry having to leave a movie theater because a characters ring tone was the one I had on my on call phone and it caused a panic attack.
    - sevensor 9y ago
      Most of a decade later, I still reach for a pager that's not there whenever the lights flicker.

anoonmoose 9y ago

Also, you'll make 2-3x the average salary in the US. TANSTAAFL

sevensor 9y ago
True that. It's still a backup plan if I'm ever really desperate for money. It's brutal if you have a family though.
avs733 9y ago
Honestly its not worth it. I know that is a privileged position, but the quality of life was so bad that I just ended up with a ton of savings that I used to take 6 months off and travel and decompress/deal with all the mental health stuff resulting from the job after I quit.
macNchz 9y ago
There are quite many routes to making 2-3x the national average salary that don’t require 24/7 pager duty. I’ve done on-call rotations, but being ‘on’ nonstop sounds like torture and a recipe for burnout.
- avs733 9y ago
  I did 11 months of 24x7. My managers were so normed to it they actually documented it. No one seemed to notice my contract called for that time to be compensated. After I ended my employment they seemed shocked when I asked for that compensation to be paid out. They then denied that I had been 'actually on call' (note: managers, don't lie to your HR department - especially the investigations people). Thankfully I had documented all the listings of me being on call and pointed out that their policy required an on call engineer to be available and noted that no one else in the group was certified to be on cal. We settled before I had to take it to court.
  - sevensor 9y ago
    Yikes, you were the only person in your group who was competent to answer pages? We had several, and there were a number of factors that determined who would get paged first for a given issue, including whether you were in a fight with manufacturing. (Don't ever get in a fight with people whose job description includes paging you at odd hours.) I usually got woken up a couple times a week. Sounds like you had it a lot worse.

avs733 9y ago

>(Source: recovering semiconductor process engineer.) I nearly had a panic attack reading this. Exactly the same background and experience working in FABs. I honestly had a moment where I thought I may have had a had some form of break and written this under a different account. On call at family weddings, asked to cancel vacations at the last minute (that was the final straw for me), working 6-6 followed by calls at 1am...yeah, no more. US employment laws leave a lot a lot to be desired. I can't even fathom those in China.

sevensor 9y ago
Glad I'm not the only semiconductor industry refugee on here! Most people don't believe half of my stories about it. I don't even tell the other half.
- avs733 9y ago
  I did a talk at a conference (it pops up on HN every year or so) that was basically storytelling from my semiconductor days. If I hadn't lived some of it, I would find it hard to believe. My 'favorite' story was three years after I left the industry having to leave a movie theater because a characters ring tone was the one I had on my on call phone and it caused a panic attack.
  - sevensor 9y ago
    Most of a decade later, I still reach for a pager that's not there whenever the lights flicker.