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There were massacres before Facebook, and there will still be after it. As much as I dislike Facebook, they are just a platform and if they weren't here, anothe

There were massacres before Facebook, and there will still be after it. As much as I dislike Facebook, they are just a platform and if they weren't here, another one will take their place so it's a bit weird the UN investigator would blame them directly. Ultimately people, not FB, are responsible for what they do, and for being too easily manipulated by online propaganda.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> if they weren't here, another one will take their place This is a cop-out. Hateful false information, with violent consequences, is being spread by a company profiting from its distribution. We don’t say, in the event of food poisoning, “we can’t blame the restaurant because if they weren’t here someone else would be poisoning people.” We fine the business and send a message to the industry that said behaviour is unacceptable. Facebook is contributing to and profiting from atrocities. That rightfully merits scrutiny, of Facebook and ad-driven social media companies generally.
- zingmars 9y ago
  That's a terrible analogy. Unless there's a cabal of restaurants with a plan to poison people, it's probably an accident. Spreading hate like this however, is deliberate, and if there wasn't facebook, people doing this would most certainly find a different venue.
- laurent123456 9y ago
  They simply provide a way to communicate between people. When a newspaper incites hatred, we might blame the editor, the writers, or the readers, but we don't blame the paper company. What I mean is that the service provided by Facebook is somewhat trivial - it can easily be replaced by emails, chats, or any of the countless ways to communicate via the internet. Shutting down Facebook will not solve the problems in Myanmar.
- yur83838 9y ago
  This isn't a cop out. Anything different and Facebook would be blamed for censorship. This is a difficult problem to solve. It's practically human nature to form a mob and group think. It's one of the first things that kids do in pre-school. I think the only solution to this problem is education.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Anything different and Facebook would be blamed for censorship Facebook isn’t concerned about being “blamed for censorship” when it benefits their bottom line [1]. > This is a difficult problem to solve The first step is recognising that ad-driven reaction-oriented social media does not appear to positively self-correct. [1] https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/technology/facebook-censorship-tool-china.html?referer=https://duckduckgo.com/ https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/technology/facebook-ce...
    - mmsimanga 9y ago
      I get that social media is bad for you. The question is does the rest of the world agree? Perhaps I can liken it to sugar. It's is bad for you in large quantities but it is legal.
  - pcnix 9y ago
    The design of the system definitely contributes to how easily malicious propaganda can be spread through it. The tendency of the news feed to promote attention grabbing content biases it to extremes, and this is definitely a systemic problem, and shouldn't be ignored and swept under the rug.
salvar 9y ago
"There was food poisoning before this restaurant that failed inspection, and food poisoning will still exist even if we close it. If it wasn't there, another one will take its place. Ultimately people, not restaurants, are responsible for what they eat."
matt4077 9y ago
That’s a sad idea of powerlessness. It’s also wrong: Facebook doesn’t have a competitor in its core market, and the idea that people would start thinking “you know, Facebook is great. But I just wish there were a platform just like it with a bit more calls to violence against minority groups” is ludicrous.
- pjc50 9y ago
  Ironically that seems to have happened with reddit - there are a couple of competitors which are "just like it with a bit more calls to violence against minority groups".
  - matt4077 9y ago
    And they are completely irrelevant and have nowhere near the reach and influence that posts on reddit have, nicely proving my point. The content on these sites is also so far away from common decency that people will not the mistake of thinking that messages they read there are acceptable in common discourse.
- laurent123456 9y ago
  Those responsible for the propaganda against the Rohingya used the radio before, now they use Facebook and after that they'll use something else. Education and a proper government that would censor the hate groups could help solve the problems in Myanmar, but eg shutting down Facebook would not change anything.
  - shaki-dora 9y ago
    > shutting down Facebook would not change anything. You’re just asserting this without any argument, even though it was addressed in the post you’re responding to. What would be used instead of Facebook? If that other platform is as convenient and effective as FB, why is it not used today? And since you are agreeing that censorship of hate could help: why do you believe the appropriate distribution of the responsibility for such censorship is more important than stopping a genocide?
pjc50 9y ago
For context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Collines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Lib... Eventually - decades after the massacres in Rwanda - those responsible for the genocide-promoting radio station have been given long prison sentences.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> if they weren't here, another one will take their place This is a cop-out. Hateful false information, with violent consequences, is being spread by a company profiting from its distribution. We don’t say, in the event of food poisoning, “we can’t blame the restaurant because if they weren’t here someone else would be poisoning people.” We fine the business and send a message to the industry that said behaviour is unacceptable. Facebook is contributing to and profiting from atrocities. That rightfully merits scrutiny, of Facebook and ad-driven social media companies generally.

zingmars 9y ago
That's a terrible analogy. Unless there's a cabal of restaurants with a plan to poison people, it's probably an accident. Spreading hate like this however, is deliberate, and if there wasn't facebook, people doing this would most certainly find a different venue.
laurent123456 9y ago
They simply provide a way to communicate between people. When a newspaper incites hatred, we might blame the editor, the writers, or the readers, but we don't blame the paper company. What I mean is that the service provided by Facebook is somewhat trivial - it can easily be replaced by emails, chats, or any of the countless ways to communicate via the internet. Shutting down Facebook will not solve the problems in Myanmar.
yur83838 9y ago
This isn't a cop out. Anything different and Facebook would be blamed for censorship. This is a difficult problem to solve. It's practically human nature to form a mob and group think. It's one of the first things that kids do in pre-school. I think the only solution to this problem is education.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > Anything different and Facebook would be blamed for censorship Facebook isn’t concerned about being “blamed for censorship” when it benefits their bottom line [1]. > This is a difficult problem to solve The first step is recognising that ad-driven reaction-oriented social media does not appear to positively self-correct. [1] https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/technology/facebook-censorship-tool-china.html?referer=https://duckduckgo.com/ https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/technology/facebook-ce...
  - mmsimanga 9y ago
    I get that social media is bad for you. The question is does the rest of the world agree? Perhaps I can liken it to sugar. It's is bad for you in large quantities but it is legal.
- pcnix 9y ago
  The design of the system definitely contributes to how easily malicious propaganda can be spread through it. The tendency of the news feed to promote attention grabbing content biases it to extremes, and this is definitely a systemic problem, and shouldn't be ignored and swept under the rug.

salvar 9y ago

"There was food poisoning before this restaurant that failed inspection, and food poisoning will still exist even if we close it. If it wasn't there, another one will take its place. Ultimately people, not restaurants, are responsible for what they eat."

matt4077 9y ago

That’s a sad idea of powerlessness. It’s also wrong: Facebook doesn’t have a competitor in its core market, and the idea that people would start thinking “you know, Facebook is great. But I just wish there were a platform just like it with a bit more calls to violence against minority groups” is ludicrous.

pjc50 9y ago
Ironically that seems to have happened with reddit - there are a couple of competitors which are "just like it with a bit more calls to violence against minority groups".
- matt4077 9y ago
  And they are completely irrelevant and have nowhere near the reach and influence that posts on reddit have, nicely proving my point. The content on these sites is also so far away from common decency that people will not the mistake of thinking that messages they read there are acceptable in common discourse.
laurent123456 9y ago
Those responsible for the propaganda against the Rohingya used the radio before, now they use Facebook and after that they'll use something else. Education and a proper government that would censor the hate groups could help solve the problems in Myanmar, but eg shutting down Facebook would not change anything.
- shaki-dora 9y ago
  > shutting down Facebook would not change anything. You’re just asserting this without any argument, even though it was addressed in the post you’re responding to. What would be used instead of Facebook? If that other platform is as convenient and effective as FB, why is it not used today? And since you are agreeing that censorship of hate could help: why do you believe the appropriate distribution of the responsibility for such censorship is more important than stopping a genocide?

pjc50 9y ago

For context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Collines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Lib... Eventually - decades after the massacres in Rwanda - those responsible for the genocide-promoting radio station have been given long prison sentences.