4 ms·

Well, my understanding is that "critical thinking" is already very commonly considered to be part of various course curricula. If it's not being taught, then we

Well, my understanding is that "critical thinking" is already very commonly considered to be part of various course curricula. If it's not being taught, then we'd need to do something differently. I've been hearing claims of the need to teach "critical thinking" since I was in high school. To me it always came across as one of those things that can't easily be taught, particularly in a traditional academic setting. Everyone agrees it should be taught, but if there were a clear way of doing it, we would.

mistermann 9y ago
There's plenty of material out there that isn't remotely touched upon in a traditional education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_logic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_logic https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-classical/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-classical/ https://distancelearning.ubc.ca/courses-and-programs/distance-learning-courses/courses/phil/phil120/ https://distancelearning.ubc.ca/courses-and-programs/distanc... > If it's not being taught, then we'd need to do something differently. When reading the news, forums, or overhearing conversations, do you not regularly encounter people who obviously have no significant skills in critical thinking?
- moduspol 9y ago
  > There's plenty of material out there that isn't remotely touched upon in a traditional education. Right. I took a logic class for my undergraduate degree. It's actually the source of the "modus" in my username. I guess to me that's a far cry from what people refer to as "critical thinking." Being able to identify textbook logical fallacies isn't the same thing as rationally and objectively forming a judgment about something. It's certainly a helpful part, but I doubt most would remember it any better than geometry or 1800s history. > When reading the news, forums, or overhearing conversations, do you not regularly encounter people who obviously have no significant skills in critical thinking? I do, but it's rarely a clear-cut example of misunderstanding a logical fallacy. More often than not, it's the blind acceptance of supporting evidence while rejecting opposing evidence. Or assigning way too much value to a poorly-sourced news story. Or approaching the issue with a different worldview / values. Or any number of other biases that affect decision-making. To be clear, though: I agree it's clearly not being taught. I'm just not convinced you can take a bunch of high schoolers, put them in a room, and after X weeks of doing something, they'll be critical thinkers. I agree you could probably teach them logical fallacies well enough to pass a test on them, but that's not the same thing.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    Do you think we've reached the absolute apex of having a well-informed citizenry? If not, if critical thinking doesn't work, what could we do to improve this situation?
    - jessaustin 9y ago
      Judging solely on the number of HN commentators who are absolutely incapable of detecting irony or satire, and indeed who may feel those are entirely out of place on HN, the average citizen isn't capable of considering two mutually contradictory propositions at the same time, let alone becoming "well-informed". The various exhortations in this thread to "just teach them!" bespeak a similar innocence. We have a rather large number of trained professionals engaged in the teaching already, so such pleas should at the very least be accompanied by considerations of why those efforts have not yet sufficed.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Critical thinking, specifically, is taught on a widespread basis? What country are you writing from, and could you give some specific examples?
        jessaustin 9y ago
        Most of our high schools despair of teaching mathematics to the level of algebra, to most of their students. Many haven't yet despaired of conveying literacy to those same students, but the outcome is by no means certain. I would consider both of those prerequisites to "critical thinking", no matter what particular idiosyncratic definition of that phrase you might prefer. Therefore I suggest that we aim lower, for a sort of animal suspicion that comes naturally to all humans. The result, from the perspective of political harmony, will be the same: hundreds of millions of critical thinkers would not magically all arrive at the same conclusions on any set of topics. In a perfect world of critical education, not only would you still disagree with most people's conclusions, but you would also still disagree with how they arrived at those conclusions.

mistermann 9y ago

There's plenty of material out there that isn't remotely touched upon in a traditional education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_logic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_logic https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-classical/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-classical/ https://distancelearning.ubc.ca/courses-and-programs/distance-learning-courses/courses/phil/phil120/ https://distancelearning.ubc.ca/courses-and-programs/distanc... > If it's not being taught, then we'd need to do something differently. When reading the news, forums, or overhearing conversations, do you not regularly encounter people who obviously have no significant skills in critical thinking?

moduspol 9y ago
> There's plenty of material out there that isn't remotely touched upon in a traditional education. Right. I took a logic class for my undergraduate degree. It's actually the source of the "modus" in my username. I guess to me that's a far cry from what people refer to as "critical thinking." Being able to identify textbook logical fallacies isn't the same thing as rationally and objectively forming a judgment about something. It's certainly a helpful part, but I doubt most would remember it any better than geometry or 1800s history. > When reading the news, forums, or overhearing conversations, do you not regularly encounter people who obviously have no significant skills in critical thinking? I do, but it's rarely a clear-cut example of misunderstanding a logical fallacy. More often than not, it's the blind acceptance of supporting evidence while rejecting opposing evidence. Or assigning way too much value to a poorly-sourced news story. Or approaching the issue with a different worldview / values. Or any number of other biases that affect decision-making. To be clear, though: I agree it's clearly not being taught. I'm just not convinced you can take a bunch of high schoolers, put them in a room, and after X weeks of doing something, they'll be critical thinkers. I agree you could probably teach them logical fallacies well enough to pass a test on them, but that's not the same thing.
- mistermann 9y ago
  Do you think we've reached the absolute apex of having a well-informed citizenry? If not, if critical thinking doesn't work, what could we do to improve this situation?
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    Judging solely on the number of HN commentators who are absolutely incapable of detecting irony or satire, and indeed who may feel those are entirely out of place on HN, the average citizen isn't capable of considering two mutually contradictory propositions at the same time, let alone becoming "well-informed". The various exhortations in this thread to "just teach them!" bespeak a similar innocence. We have a rather large number of trained professionals engaged in the teaching already, so such pleas should at the very least be accompanied by considerations of why those efforts have not yet sufficed.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Critical thinking, specifically, is taught on a widespread basis? What country are you writing from, and could you give some specific examples?
      - jessaustin 9y ago
        Most of our high schools despair of teaching mathematics to the level of algebra, to most of their students. Many haven't yet despaired of conveying literacy to those same students, but the outcome is by no means certain. I would consider both of those prerequisites to "critical thinking", no matter what particular idiosyncratic definition of that phrase you might prefer. Therefore I suggest that we aim lower, for a sort of animal suspicion that comes naturally to all humans. The result, from the perspective of political harmony, will be the same: hundreds of millions of critical thinkers would not magically all arrive at the same conclusions on any set of topics. In a perfect world of critical education, not only would you still disagree with most people's conclusions, but you would also still disagree with how they arrived at those conclusions.