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True. Here in Europe in general, Lyft is uknown, but, at least here in Greece, everyone sings the praises of Uber, in comparison to the terrible service normal

True. Here in Europe in general, Lyft is uknown, but, at least here in Greece, everyone sings the praises of Uber, in comparison to the terrible service normal taxis provide. HN is not only a regional but also an ideological bubble, and it seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves (except Apple and Musk-affiliated gigs).

nothrabannosir 9y ago
> and [HN] seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves Well, that—and, maybe, a pinch of Company-wide culture of sexual harassment.
- hcnews 9y ago
  > Well, that—and, maybe, a pinch of Company-wide culture of sexual harassment. Source required (specifically about company-wide culture, x != entire company fwiw where x is the number you are claiming).
- misun78 9y ago
  Also source required where the number of sexual harassment cases at Uber > the number at a comparatively sized company. Otherwise you are just going off of who gets the most publicity in the media.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    I believe it's less the number of claims (though from all the stories, I'd give them 50-50 on being an outlier) and more the seniority of the claims. If a large org has junior employees harassing other employees, that's bad. If the CEO and executive level is actively participating in and covering for same, that's organizational policy.
  - shaki-dora 9y ago
    You’re asking for something impossible, I.e. proof of something that cannot be proven. After all, any sort of statistic I could find would be tainted by your “media bias” catch-all.
forapurpose 9y ago
> seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves Wow. Can you back that up?
rtpg 9y ago
Why do you think HN hates companies that are doing well for themselves? Doing this is way more exhausting than cheering them on (see SpaceX, people have fun in those posts). "Oh this company is doing well and I'm jealous"? Seriously don't know how that's enough. There's a slightly less nefarious interpretation which is that people have different values, and disagreement happens. So many people are extremely happy to see other people's success here, for example Lyft here. But what you might think is unimportant virtue signalling is something other people actually care about, sometimes deeply
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
  Agreed. Whether you think it's worth changing your habits for, with the numerous examples of shitty behavior (that their new CEO has even copped to) from Uber it's not hard to see why people wouldn't want to support them.
- johnfn 9y ago
  Are you sure about your first assertion? It is well known that HN is gratuitously negative about everything. SpaceX is the exception, rather than the rule - and you'd be hard pressed to find another company with quite such a positive reputation on HN.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    I attribute SpaceX and Tesla love to the "ask a kindergartner what they want to be" phenomenon. Everyone, regardless of field, can relate to rockets and cars. Far fewer people would relate to, say, optimizing insurance benefit payments.
    - jschwartzi 9y ago
      It's deeper than that. People here like Tesla because it's forcing other car makers to build decent electric cars. That's something that needs to happen if we're going to move away from fossil fuel dependence. SpaceX is cool because there's a really good chance they'll be more successful at missions to the moon and Mars than NASA has been recently. They're both forward-thinking companies.
Certhas 9y ago
You can speak for Europe in general? In my European bubble people are generally aware that Uber is a morally questionable company (without necessary knowing about the details, just a reputation) and some have heard of Lyft, even though it's not available.
- John_KZ 9y ago
  This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Uber is banned in Greece, Italy, Finland and a host of other countries. It's also legally banned in London afaik and heavily regulated in a lot of other places. Actually in Greece 4 drivers have been criminally charged for violating the law by driving for Uber and falsifying documents (as per company instructions). In the countries of South Europe (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal) in which I have personal experience, although there are some Uber drivers operating illegally or in gray zones, penetration is minimal. You can only get rides in capitals and major cities, and they're not much cheaper. The main reasons are 2: people hate Uber because they know they're exploiting workers, and taxi drivers have strong unions. Uber IMHO is the only entity that managed to become more hated than taxi drivers. The reason Uber is banned everywhere can be summed up by the European Court of Justice: Uber needs to stop pretending to be just an app. It's a transport company, and it's using the app as an excuse to operate illegally, bypassing regulations, responsibility and avoiding tax.
  - stevekemp 9y ago
    For what it is worth the situation in Finland is changing, and Uber will be back in some form: https://metropolitan.fi/entry/uber-returns-to-finland-in-july-2018 https://metropolitan.fi/entry/uber-returns-to-finland-in-jul...
  - luka-birsa 9y ago
    I can second this. Uber did have a positive effect on local taxis, forcing them to upgrade. We now have taxi companies that are reinventing themselves - apps are good, you can pay with CC in the app and the drivers need to adhere to some standard of professional ethics. Imagine that - they are able to do that without the "Uber" model of ignoring regulation and doing the fuck they want regardless.
vadimberman 9y ago
> at least here in Greece, everyone sings the praises of Uber, in comparison to the terrible service normal taxis provide There. It's not only in Greece, it's pretty much all over the world except a few places. I know, the taxi drivers work hard, but the standards before Uber were really abysmal. Why? Because monopoly. For the young ones and those with poor memory, the overcharging, taking 5 times the normal length "shortcuts", geographically challenged, downright scammy taxi drivers were a norm. In the States, they also expect a tip of 20% for deigning to do their job; one thing I never understood in Boston is how it is physically possible to accumulate so many fumes in a modern car. In places where the taxis are in demand, they wouldn't bother picking you up. Today the horrible ones still exist, of course, but their number is dwindling.

nothrabannosir 9y ago

> and [HN] seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves Well, that—and, maybe, a pinch of Company-wide culture of sexual harassment.

hcnews 9y ago
> Well, that—and, maybe, a pinch of Company-wide culture of sexual harassment. Source required (specifically about company-wide culture, x != entire company fwiw where x is the number you are claiming).
misun78 9y ago
Also source required where the number of sexual harassment cases at Uber > the number at a comparatively sized company. Otherwise you are just going off of who gets the most publicity in the media.
- ethbro 9y ago
  I believe it's less the number of claims (though from all the stories, I'd give them 50-50 on being an outlier) and more the seniority of the claims. If a large org has junior employees harassing other employees, that's bad. If the CEO and executive level is actively participating in and covering for same, that's organizational policy.
- shaki-dora 9y ago
  You’re asking for something impossible, I.e. proof of something that cannot be proven. After all, any sort of statistic I could find would be tainted by your “media bias” catch-all.

forapurpose 9y ago

> seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves Wow. Can you back that up?

rtpg 9y ago

Why do you think HN hates companies that are doing well for themselves? Doing this is way more exhausting than cheering them on (see SpaceX, people have fun in those posts). "Oh this company is doing well and I'm jealous"? Seriously don't know how that's enough. There's a slightly less nefarious interpretation which is that people have different values, and disagreement happens. So many people are extremely happy to see other people's success here, for example Lyft here. But what you might think is unimportant virtue signalling is something other people actually care about, sometimes deeply

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
Agreed. Whether you think it's worth changing your habits for, with the numerous examples of shitty behavior (that their new CEO has even copped to) from Uber it's not hard to see why people wouldn't want to support them.
johnfn 9y ago
Are you sure about your first assertion? It is well known that HN is gratuitously negative about everything. SpaceX is the exception, rather than the rule - and you'd be hard pressed to find another company with quite such a positive reputation on HN.
- ethbro 9y ago
  I attribute SpaceX and Tesla love to the "ask a kindergartner what they want to be" phenomenon. Everyone, regardless of field, can relate to rockets and cars. Far fewer people would relate to, say, optimizing insurance benefit payments.
  - jschwartzi 9y ago
    It's deeper than that. People here like Tesla because it's forcing other car makers to build decent electric cars. That's something that needs to happen if we're going to move away from fossil fuel dependence. SpaceX is cool because there's a really good chance they'll be more successful at missions to the moon and Mars than NASA has been recently. They're both forward-thinking companies.

Certhas 9y ago

You can speak for Europe in general? In my European bubble people are generally aware that Uber is a morally questionable company (without necessary knowing about the details, just a reputation) and some have heard of Lyft, even though it's not available.

John_KZ 9y ago
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Uber is banned in Greece, Italy, Finland and a host of other countries. It's also legally banned in London afaik and heavily regulated in a lot of other places. Actually in Greece 4 drivers have been criminally charged for violating the law by driving for Uber and falsifying documents (as per company instructions). In the countries of South Europe (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal) in which I have personal experience, although there are some Uber drivers operating illegally or in gray zones, penetration is minimal. You can only get rides in capitals and major cities, and they're not much cheaper. The main reasons are 2: people hate Uber because they know they're exploiting workers, and taxi drivers have strong unions. Uber IMHO is the only entity that managed to become more hated than taxi drivers. The reason Uber is banned everywhere can be summed up by the European Court of Justice: Uber needs to stop pretending to be just an app. It's a transport company, and it's using the app as an excuse to operate illegally, bypassing regulations, responsibility and avoiding tax.
- stevekemp 9y ago
  For what it is worth the situation in Finland is changing, and Uber will be back in some form: https://metropolitan.fi/entry/uber-returns-to-finland-in-july-2018 https://metropolitan.fi/entry/uber-returns-to-finland-in-jul...
- luka-birsa 9y ago
  I can second this. Uber did have a positive effect on local taxis, forcing them to upgrade. We now have taxi companies that are reinventing themselves - apps are good, you can pay with CC in the app and the drivers need to adhere to some standard of professional ethics. Imagine that - they are able to do that without the "Uber" model of ignoring regulation and doing the fuck they want regardless.

vadimberman 9y ago

> at least here in Greece, everyone sings the praises of Uber, in comparison to the terrible service normal taxis provide There. It's not only in Greece, it's pretty much all over the world except a few places. I know, the taxi drivers work hard, but the standards before Uber were really abysmal. Why? Because monopoly. For the young ones and those with poor memory, the overcharging, taking 5 times the normal length "shortcuts", geographically challenged, downright scammy taxi drivers were a norm. In the States, they also expect a tip of 20% for deigning to do their job; one thing I never understood in Boston is how it is physically possible to accumulate so many fumes in a modern car. In places where the taxis are in demand, they wouldn't bother picking you up. Today the horrible ones still exist, of course, but their number is dwindling.