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This is terribly dangerous advice for a border crossing.

by graeme 9y ago

leggomylibro 9y ago
On the other hand, a big part of nonviolent resistance as preached by figures like Gandhi and MLK Jr. is acknowledging that your actions may get you detained by a civil power. You'd be relying on the arbitrary, capricious, and in your view reprehensible nature of the charges to sway public opinion and stoke outrage. It's not good advice if you are an individual who just wants to avoid the inside of a prison cell, and it's definitely dangerous, but I'd still admire anyone with the strength of character to follow through with it. It's also terrible advice in countries where the preferred solution is simply to murder loud activists. At least you can theoretically be released from prison.
- graeme 9y ago
  That's true, and a good point. And if someone tried to organize a movement to resist capricious border treatment, I think that would be laudable. I'm less sure about an individual reading that advice and swearing at a border guard. Both Ghandi and MLK used mass resistance to achieve their ends.
Chaebixi 9y ago
Depends on who you are, whose border, and which direction. If you're an American returning from abroad, my understanding is the most they can do is detain you (briefly) and confiscate your electronic devices for a limited period of time. Americans can't be denied re-entry to the US. So go ahead and refuse as a political statement, the worst that could happen is you'll miss your connection and you'll have to use a temporary phone for a bit. But if you're a foreign citizen, it's probably best to swallow your pride and comply.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  As it relates to an American returning from abroad, it doesn't appear what "briefly" means. From about 5 minutes of Googling, it appears anywhere up to 12 hours of detention is possible (based on a 2008 CBP internal memo). Detentions have lasted more than 24 hours though, sometimes for days: "Median Number of Hours Individuals Were Held in Detention, by Sector" https://i.imgur.com/MNYTJzF.png https://i.imgur.com/MNYTJzF.png

This is terribly dangerous advice for a border crossing.

by graeme 9y ago

This is terribly dangerous advice for a border crossing.

On the other hand, a big part of nonviolent resistance as preached by figures like Gandhi and MLK Jr. is acknowledging that your actions may get you detained by a civil power. You'd be relying on the arbitrary, capricious, and in your view reprehensible nature of the charges to sway public opinion and stoke outrage. It's not good advice if you are an individual who just wants to avoid the inside of a prison cell, and it's definitely dangerous, but I'd still admire anyone with the strength of character to follow through with it. It's also terrible advice in countries where the preferred solution is simply to murder loud activists. At least you can theoretically be released from prison.

graeme 9y ago
That's true, and a good point. And if someone tried to organize a movement to resist capricious border treatment, I think that would be laudable. I'm less sure about an individual reading that advice and swearing at a border guard. Both Ghandi and MLK used mass resistance to achieve their ends.

Chaebixi 9y ago

Depends on who you are, whose border, and which direction. If you're an American returning from abroad, my understanding is the most they can do is detain you (briefly) and confiscate your electronic devices for a limited period of time. Americans can't be denied re-entry to the US. So go ahead and refuse as a political statement, the worst that could happen is you'll miss your connection and you'll have to use a temporary phone for a bit. But if you're a foreign citizen, it's probably best to swallow your pride and comply.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
As it relates to an American returning from abroad, it doesn't appear what "briefly" means. From about 5 minutes of Googling, it appears anywhere up to 12 hours of detention is possible (based on a 2008 CBP internal memo). Detentions have lasted more than 24 hours though, sometimes for days: "Median Number of Hours Individuals Were Held in Detention, by Sector" https://i.imgur.com/MNYTJzF.png https://i.imgur.com/MNYTJzF.png