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You might have morals and/or value your time, but actually I think the article is dead on that they're competitors. A large segment of the population chooses to

You might have morals and/or value your time, but actually I think the article is dead on that they're competitors. A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay. If BitTorrent ceased to exist (as a technology - not the company), NetFlix would almost certainly gain some customers.

duck 16y ago
A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay Is there any numbers backing this up?
- nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
  Anecdote: I have multiple relatives, including a police officer, who are dumb as a rock about how computers work, but through their friends have managed to pick up on how to use BitTorrent + Pirate Bay to pirate not only movies but music. And they see nothing wrong with this behavior, in an extremely conservative portion of Ohio; the same people who insist our President is a Muslim Kenyan. If this sort of use case has penetrated this portion of the population, I'd have to imagine that it's prevalent enough to be at least a tiny competitor to Netflix et al, if not more.
  - duck 16y ago
    That is what I was wondering since I hadn't really seen anyone outside of the tech world use it. So with that I can see it being a competitor, but then I wonder how do you compete with something that is illegal and not really an entity?
    - trunnell 16y ago
      I wonder how do you compete with [BitTorrent] Netflix competes by being more convenient than BitTorrent. BT might be free, but it doesn't deliver TV shows and movies directly to your HDTV.
      - afterburner 16y ago
        It can if you buy DVRs that can run Bittorrent internally and decode a variety of codecs. Not to mention just using your computer to host the files and pass through such a device or PS3/Xbox directly to the television. Or just hooking up the computer to the TV, but of course then there is the hassle of setting it up to be convenient to control from your couch. Wireless mouse is often enough. Again, it's not hard. But there is a small learning curve. Netflix and competitors have to keep making it easier and easier, since alternative sources will also keep getting easier to use.
      - dagw 16y ago
        Actually it does if you know how to set it up. With the right setup you can subscribe to TV shows and have them waiting for you on your HTPC a few hours after they've aired for the first time anywhere in the world. Same with movies, pull simple up a web interface click a few movies you want to see and it's more often than not ready to watch 30-45 minutes later.
    - chc 16y ago
      There are advantages to being able to afford centralized infrastructure. I can stream from Netflix. Downloading from Bittorrent means telling my girlfriend, "OK, we can start that movie in an hour if the download goes quickly." Blockbuster is more convenient than Bittorret in many cases.
- reitzensteinm 16y ago
  The Pirate Bay alone reports 30 million peers, although it doesn't report uniques so it's hard to tell. But then there are people who just come on, download, and quit. Really I think the onus of proof would be on anyone claiming that the pirating percentage is insignificant, not the other way around.
dkarl 16y ago
Whoever prefers the hassle and crappy experience of using Bittorrent instead of spending a few bucks a month for Netflix, their money isn't worth chasing. It would be like Econolodge trying to market to the homeless population.
- reitzensteinm 16y ago
  I agree. I make piratable media, and I don't lose any sleep over it. I'm just challenging the assertion that they're not competitors at all.
- GFischer 16y ago
  I agree with your comment, but it stings to think of myself as a "homeless" - these things tend not to work in Uruguay* (my home country), and even if they do, they're illegal anyways. Being a small South American country means large corporations often ignore you (it's cheaper than trying to cater to yet another mass of hungry legislators and tiny fiefdoms) *that means I haven't actually tried Netflix itself despite it would be good for me, but I have tried similar services like Pandora and they aren't legally allowed here.
- afterburner 16y ago
  I suspect you're vastly overestimating the hassle in using Bittorrent. But it is true that most people don't want to bother learning even the simplest things.
- avar 16y ago
  I'm not in the U.S. so I can't spend a few bucks on Netflix. But your bad experience with BitTorrent is probably purely a function of using the wrong trackers. I have access to some trackers where the download very rarely goes below 2MB/s, with 5-8MB/s being the average. Some of these have material like discontinued music and foreign films that I could never get where I live, at least not without significant hassle. With this setup I can initiate a download for a foreign 720p film, go and make some tea, and it'll be there by the time I come back. That's quality of service I can't even pay for where I live, no matter how much cash I fork out.
lallysingh 16y ago
I donno -- I know some people who bittorrent as default behavior. They tend to also pay for both netflix and a fast network link. Remember, many people technically sophisticated enough to do bittorrent are also smart enough to be lazy with their effort. Didn't the strength of iTunes paid songs show that people's time is worth money?

duck 16y ago

A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay Is there any numbers backing this up?

nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
Anecdote: I have multiple relatives, including a police officer, who are dumb as a rock about how computers work, but through their friends have managed to pick up on how to use BitTorrent + Pirate Bay to pirate not only movies but music. And they see nothing wrong with this behavior, in an extremely conservative portion of Ohio; the same people who insist our President is a Muslim Kenyan. If this sort of use case has penetrated this portion of the population, I'd have to imagine that it's prevalent enough to be at least a tiny competitor to Netflix et al, if not more.
- duck 16y ago
  That is what I was wondering since I hadn't really seen anyone outside of the tech world use it. So with that I can see it being a competitor, but then I wonder how do you compete with something that is illegal and not really an entity?
  - trunnell 16y ago
    I wonder how do you compete with [BitTorrent] Netflix competes by being more convenient than BitTorrent. BT might be free, but it doesn't deliver TV shows and movies directly to your HDTV.
    - afterburner 16y ago
      It can if you buy DVRs that can run Bittorrent internally and decode a variety of codecs. Not to mention just using your computer to host the files and pass through such a device or PS3/Xbox directly to the television. Or just hooking up the computer to the TV, but of course then there is the hassle of setting it up to be convenient to control from your couch. Wireless mouse is often enough. Again, it's not hard. But there is a small learning curve. Netflix and competitors have to keep making it easier and easier, since alternative sources will also keep getting easier to use.
    - dagw 16y ago
      Actually it does if you know how to set it up. With the right setup you can subscribe to TV shows and have them waiting for you on your HTPC a few hours after they've aired for the first time anywhere in the world. Same with movies, pull simple up a web interface click a few movies you want to see and it's more often than not ready to watch 30-45 minutes later.
  - chc 16y ago
    There are advantages to being able to afford centralized infrastructure. I can stream from Netflix. Downloading from Bittorrent means telling my girlfriend, "OK, we can start that movie in an hour if the download goes quickly." Blockbuster is more convenient than Bittorret in many cases.
reitzensteinm 16y ago
The Pirate Bay alone reports 30 million peers, although it doesn't report uniques so it's hard to tell. But then there are people who just come on, download, and quit. Really I think the onus of proof would be on anyone claiming that the pirating percentage is insignificant, not the other way around.

dkarl 16y ago

Whoever prefers the hassle and crappy experience of using Bittorrent instead of spending a few bucks a month for Netflix, their money isn't worth chasing. It would be like Econolodge trying to market to the homeless population.

reitzensteinm 16y ago
I agree. I make piratable media, and I don't lose any sleep over it. I'm just challenging the assertion that they're not competitors at all.
GFischer 16y ago
I agree with your comment, but it stings to think of myself as a "homeless" - these things tend not to work in Uruguay* (my home country), and even if they do, they're illegal anyways. Being a small South American country means large corporations often ignore you (it's cheaper than trying to cater to yet another mass of hungry legislators and tiny fiefdoms) *that means I haven't actually tried Netflix itself despite it would be good for me, but I have tried similar services like Pandora and they aren't legally allowed here.
afterburner 16y ago
I suspect you're vastly overestimating the hassle in using Bittorrent. But it is true that most people don't want to bother learning even the simplest things.
avar 16y ago
I'm not in the U.S. so I can't spend a few bucks on Netflix. But your bad experience with BitTorrent is probably purely a function of using the wrong trackers. I have access to some trackers where the download very rarely goes below 2MB/s, with 5-8MB/s being the average. Some of these have material like discontinued music and foreign films that I could never get where I live, at least not without significant hassle. With this setup I can initiate a download for a foreign 720p film, go and make some tea, and it'll be there by the time I come back. That's quality of service I can't even pay for where I live, no matter how much cash I fork out.

lallysingh 16y ago

I donno -- I know some people who bittorrent as default behavior. They tend to also pay for both netflix and a fast network link. Remember, many people technically sophisticated enough to do bittorrent are also smart enough to be lazy with their effort. Didn't the strength of iTunes paid songs show that people's time is worth money?