5 ms·

Argh, a truly good article marred by one thing: the assertion that BitTorrent is a competitor for NetFlix. This notion just won't die - I use BitTorrent, sure

by Vivtek 16y ago

Argh, a truly good article marred by one thing: the assertion that BitTorrent is a competitor for NetFlix. This notion just won't die - I use BitTorrent, sure - to get stuff I can't pay for, because nobody is interested in selling it to me. But I'd much, much, much rather toss NetFlix their $9 every month to deliver what I want without the hassle of BitTorrent, and that's the canard that the entertainment industry just can't get past. Just because it's free doesn't mean it's cheap. $9 a month is cheaper.

brianpan 16y ago
BitTorrent is a competitor to NetFlix in the same way that it, and P2P, was a competitor to the iTunes Music Store. Even if it's not free or not without hassle, it's still a way that some people get movies/TV shows etc. Which makes it competition.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  Yes, yes, and the convenience store in the gas station two blocks down is also "competition" for the Meijer superstore with actual produce and food, that I have to drive to. It's not really competition. I never go to that convenience store because they don't have what I want to eat. So in your sense, while they exist in the same market and are therefore "competitors", that viewpoint really distorts the reality of the situation.
  - brianpan 16y ago
    Point taken. In Netflix's view, they focus on a specific market niche so that they effectively compete in a smaller, less crowded space. But in analyzing their business, it's not unreasonable to take into account "nearby" competitors even as they differentiate. Netflix themselves do: http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/netflix-opportunity http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/netflix-opportunity (slide 31). Overstating BitTorrent's influence would be a mistake, but ignoring them altogether would be a distortion as well.
Herring 16y ago
>hassle of BitTorrent What do you mean? I hadn't noticed.
- loire280 16y ago
  In my experience these are the shortcomings of using bittorrent: 1. It can take several minutes to find a decent release for titles that are older (>5 years) or less popular. 2. Older/Less popular items are poorly seeded, meaning I potentially have to wait overnight for the download to finish. (A new episode of a current series, however, usually comes in as fast as my broadband connection can handle). 3. Unless you know all of the release groups by heart, you have to spend a minute or two sifting through search results to find a release in a usable format in good-enough quality. Often I have to settle for something that plays fine in mplayer/vlc instead of something I can stream to my PS3 connected to my TV. 4. Maybe about 1/20 times I finish a download only to realize that it's A) not in the right language or burned-in with foreign subtitles B) terrible quality C) incomplete. Sure, I get to keep the files, and often I can find stuff that streams on all my devices without hassle, but I watch stuff infrequently enough that the effort and possibility of failure is bothersome. I'd gladly pay to be able to choose a show and watch it immediately, assuming that the library of available content was large enough.
  - walkon 16y ago
    You forgot 5.) It's often illegal
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
  Using BitTorrent to pirate media incurs some legal risk; there is always a chance that a media company will decide to sue you. Now, the odds of that happening are low, but once they decide to sue you, you will almost certainly lose thousands of dollars, even if you end up winning. In a sense, you can think of the money spent legally purchasing all (or most) of your media as an insurance policy -- you're paying for the right to enjoy media without having to worry about losing tens of thousands of dollars. Low probability high cost scenarios might not trouble younger unattached folk, but I found they weighed more on my mind as I grew older and started a family. YMMV.
jcl 16y ago
I think the article is referring to the Bittorrent company's attempt several years ago to get into bed with the Hollywood studios. The result would have presumably provided a service similar to Netflix's online offering -- i.e. not the same service you are currently getting from the Bittorrent software for free. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002464855 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.j...
- Vivtek 16y ago
  Ah - I hadn't known that. Then they shouldn't have called it a "new technology" imho, if that's what they meant.
reitzensteinm 16y ago
You might have morals and/or value your time, but actually I think the article is dead on that they're competitors. A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay. If BitTorrent ceased to exist (as a technology - not the company), NetFlix would almost certainly gain some customers.
- duck 16y ago
  A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay Is there any numbers backing this up?
  - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
    Anecdote: I have multiple relatives, including a police officer, who are dumb as a rock about how computers work, but through their friends have managed to pick up on how to use BitTorrent + Pirate Bay to pirate not only movies but music. And they see nothing wrong with this behavior, in an extremely conservative portion of Ohio; the same people who insist our President is a Muslim Kenyan. If this sort of use case has penetrated this portion of the population, I'd have to imagine that it's prevalent enough to be at least a tiny competitor to Netflix et al, if not more.
    - duck 16y ago
      That is what I was wondering since I hadn't really seen anyone outside of the tech world use it. So with that I can see it being a competitor, but then I wonder how do you compete with something that is illegal and not really an entity?
      - trunnell 16y ago
        I wonder how do you compete with [BitTorrent] Netflix competes by being more convenient than BitTorrent. BT might be free, but it doesn't deliver TV shows and movies directly to your HDTV.
        16y ago
cowboyhero 16y ago
It's a valid assertion. Not to start a whole thing about piracy -- but what always surprises me in conversations about Bittorrent is that most people speak as if it has no effect on anything, anywhere, ever. Somehow, it also seems to exist outside any real purchasing decisions. I'm not attacking you personally, but honestly that kind of thinking (as I've stated it, not you) is delusional. The existence of unlimited free copies of your product is going to effect your business and your ability to profit. No question.
DannoHung 16y ago
I watch way more stuff with Netflix than with BitTorrent because getting the stuff I want to watch on BitTorrent would be a huge hassle.

by Vivtek 16y ago

brianpan 16y ago

BitTorrent is a competitor to NetFlix in the same way that it, and P2P, was a competitor to the iTunes Music Store. Even if it's not free or not without hassle, it's still a way that some people get movies/TV shows etc. Which makes it competition.

Vivtek 16y ago
Yes, yes, and the convenience store in the gas station two blocks down is also "competition" for the Meijer superstore with actual produce and food, that I have to drive to. It's not really competition. I never go to that convenience store because they don't have what I want to eat. So in your sense, while they exist in the same market and are therefore "competitors", that viewpoint really distorts the reality of the situation.
- brianpan 16y ago
  Point taken. In Netflix's view, they focus on a specific market niche so that they effectively compete in a smaller, less crowded space. But in analyzing their business, it's not unreasonable to take into account "nearby" competitors even as they differentiate. Netflix themselves do: http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/netflix-opportunity http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/netflix-opportunity (slide 31). Overstating BitTorrent's influence would be a mistake, but ignoring them altogether would be a distortion as well.

Herring 16y ago

>hassle of BitTorrent What do you mean? I hadn't noticed.

loire280 16y ago
In my experience these are the shortcomings of using bittorrent: 1. It can take several minutes to find a decent release for titles that are older (>5 years) or less popular. 2. Older/Less popular items are poorly seeded, meaning I potentially have to wait overnight for the download to finish. (A new episode of a current series, however, usually comes in as fast as my broadband connection can handle). 3. Unless you know all of the release groups by heart, you have to spend a minute or two sifting through search results to find a release in a usable format in good-enough quality. Often I have to settle for something that plays fine in mplayer/vlc instead of something I can stream to my PS3 connected to my TV. 4. Maybe about 1/20 times I finish a download only to realize that it's A) not in the right language or burned-in with foreign subtitles B) terrible quality C) incomplete. Sure, I get to keep the files, and often I can find stuff that streams on all my devices without hassle, but I watch stuff infrequently enough that the effort and possibility of failure is bothersome. I'd gladly pay to be able to choose a show and watch it immediately, assuming that the library of available content was large enough.
- walkon 16y ago
  You forgot 5.) It's often illegal
MichaelSalib 16y ago
Using BitTorrent to pirate media incurs some legal risk; there is always a chance that a media company will decide to sue you. Now, the odds of that happening are low, but once they decide to sue you, you will almost certainly lose thousands of dollars, even if you end up winning. In a sense, you can think of the money spent legally purchasing all (or most) of your media as an insurance policy -- you're paying for the right to enjoy media without having to worry about losing tens of thousands of dollars. Low probability high cost scenarios might not trouble younger unattached folk, but I found they weighed more on my mind as I grew older and started a family. YMMV.

jcl 16y ago

I think the article is referring to the Bittorrent company's attempt several years ago to get into bed with the Hollywood studios. The result would have presumably provided a service similar to Netflix's online offering -- i.e. not the same service you are currently getting from the Bittorrent software for free. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002464855 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.j...

Vivtek 16y ago
Ah - I hadn't known that. Then they shouldn't have called it a "new technology" imho, if that's what they meant.

reitzensteinm 16y ago

You might have morals and/or value your time, but actually I think the article is dead on that they're competitors. A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay. If BitTorrent ceased to exist (as a technology - not the company), NetFlix would almost certainly gain some customers.

duck 16y ago
A large segment of the population chooses to pirate instead of pay Is there any numbers backing this up?
- nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
  Anecdote: I have multiple relatives, including a police officer, who are dumb as a rock about how computers work, but through their friends have managed to pick up on how to use BitTorrent + Pirate Bay to pirate not only movies but music. And they see nothing wrong with this behavior, in an extremely conservative portion of Ohio; the same people who insist our President is a Muslim Kenyan. If this sort of use case has penetrated this portion of the population, I'd have to imagine that it's prevalent enough to be at least a tiny competitor to Netflix et al, if not more.
  - duck 16y ago
    That is what I was wondering since I hadn't really seen anyone outside of the tech world use it. So with that I can see it being a competitor, but then I wonder how do you compete with something that is illegal and not really an entity?
    - trunnell 16y ago
      I wonder how do you compete with [BitTorrent] Netflix competes by being more convenient than BitTorrent. BT might be free, but it doesn't deliver TV shows and movies directly to your HDTV.
      - 16y ago

cowboyhero 16y ago

It's a valid assertion. Not to start a whole thing about piracy -- but what always surprises me in conversations about Bittorrent is that most people speak as if it has no effect on anything, anywhere, ever. Somehow, it also seems to exist outside any real purchasing decisions. I'm not attacking you personally, but honestly that kind of thinking (as I've stated it, not you) is delusional. The existence of unlimited free copies of your product is going to effect your business and your ability to profit. No question.

DannoHung 16y ago

I watch way more stuff with Netflix than with BitTorrent because getting the stuff I want to watch on BitTorrent would be a huge hassle.