4 ms·

At first sight it seems to me like it is the usual "flawed" approach to third world problems by people having only first world experience. Loosely building a h

by jaclaz 9y ago

At first sight it seems to me like it is the usual "flawed" approach to third world problems by people having only first world experience. Loosely building a house is made of costs coming out of: 1) base materials (and the plants to make them and the logistics to bring them on site) 2) equipment 3) labour In "first world" countries they can be roughly weighted (as percentage of building costs) as: 1) 40%-50% 2) 10%-15% 3) 35%-50% So everyone is trying to make more "industrial" the building using prefabricated components, standardized parts, etc, attempting to reduce the labour on site, it is logical. In not-developed countries, usually pure labour is extremely cheap, while materials (and the logistics) are extremely expensive, besides equipment that (not being available for rent or sub-contracting on the local market) needs to be imported and is only justified on larger projects. It is not unusual that the same percentages in a not-developed country become: 1) 70%-75% 2) 15%-20% 3) 5%-10% Additionally the problem might be finding locally skilled labour capable of managing the high tech equipment.

morganjlopes 9y ago
This is a very thoughtful breakdown and we appreciate the interest. We (New Story) have been building houses in developing countries using traditional methods for over 3 years now. Developing this tool is in direct response to the issues we've encountered on the ground. As we look at the 1 billion+ people without adequate housing, this and innovations like it are designed to increase the speed, efficiency, and quality with which homes can be built for those in need.
ddingus 9y ago
Skill is a significant factor. Tech can mitigate it as can mentoring and enabling at scale. Quality matters. The better the homes are, the better the return on investment and quality of life is, both being necessary goals.
- abakker 9y ago
  I'd say technology can also increase the burden of skill. I.e. an average jigsaw and pencil line requires less skill and is safer than operating a CNC router, until the router gets a ton of failsafes, sensors, etc implemented. the Anti-crash features probably cost more in a CNC than the rest of the machine does (and that is why mine doesn't have any except the minimum). You're right that quality matters. My take on this is designing for poor tolerances to still yield strong structures. This 3D printing approach looks good for some aspects, but the lack of a roof seems disqualifying for me. The roof is the hard part, and potentially the easiest part to do incorrectly/unsafely. I'm surprised they didn't just print in crenelations in the top edge to allow drop-in roof joists. a simple shed roof seems like it could have easily been integrated.
  - ddingus 9y ago
    Agreed. They could also make a similar process to create roofs. Building some support structures maybe a layup type thing, print over the top of that and now you got roofs that can drop in maybe be drilled and bolted together.
atmartins 9y ago
This is possibly a valid point but where are those numbers coming from? Citations please.
- jaclaz 9y ago
  >This is possibly a valid point but where are those numbers coming from? Citations please. Well I was not attempting to write a Wikipedia article, the numbers are "simplified" and "generic enough", only to provide an "order or magnitude" on the matter. Of course they will change on a country by country base and of course they depend on the kind of building, the local availability of material, equipment and personnel and the scale of the project. They come from some 35 years of experience in the business, across Europe, including some of East Europe and Northern Africa, besides a few other countries. You won't find easily (on the public internet) similar breakdowns, as the only people actually interested in them are contractors and - to a lesser extent - developers, all the rest of industry is based on proposal by contractors or sub-contractors that do not specify how much of this or that goes into each offered price, and even large contracting firms cannot nowadays compute similar breakdowns due to the amplitude of sub-contracting.
newyankee 9y ago
The most expensive resource at least in India is land, followed by water, electricity and other usual needs that cannot be solved merely by solving the housing problem.
dpweb 9y ago
Couple thoughts on those who would criticize. To those who would say the problem is global organization and the will to end homelessness is not sufficient. Its a good point, but the Internet did not explode onto the global scene from a UN commission. Rather an extraordinary technology was unleashed and the world participated, then it became essential. This is a technology. The cost of land? At one point in history, it was not unheard of for the government to grant land to people, for free. Not purely out of generosity but in the long term interests of society. Radical? This is a good example of a worthwhile technology and should be supported. The danger is, when you get the banks and intermediaries involved, now you have an government contractor building the 4000$ house for $40000. Or more! Prices will rise to meet credit availability. The loans are distorted by the Govt guarantee. This is the sad truth of the housing market and 2008 taught us nothing. And a 30 year loan to a very poor person? Ultimately a high risk loan guaranteed by the state. Just like the US housing market today.

by jaclaz 9y ago

morganjlopes 9y ago

This is a very thoughtful breakdown and we appreciate the interest. We (New Story) have been building houses in developing countries using traditional methods for over 3 years now. Developing this tool is in direct response to the issues we've encountered on the ground. As we look at the 1 billion+ people without adequate housing, this and innovations like it are designed to increase the speed, efficiency, and quality with which homes can be built for those in need.

ddingus 9y ago

Skill is a significant factor. Tech can mitigate it as can mentoring and enabling at scale. Quality matters. The better the homes are, the better the return on investment and quality of life is, both being necessary goals.

abakker 9y ago
I'd say technology can also increase the burden of skill. I.e. an average jigsaw and pencil line requires less skill and is safer than operating a CNC router, until the router gets a ton of failsafes, sensors, etc implemented. the Anti-crash features probably cost more in a CNC than the rest of the machine does (and that is why mine doesn't have any except the minimum). You're right that quality matters. My take on this is designing for poor tolerances to still yield strong structures. This 3D printing approach looks good for some aspects, but the lack of a roof seems disqualifying for me. The roof is the hard part, and potentially the easiest part to do incorrectly/unsafely. I'm surprised they didn't just print in crenelations in the top edge to allow drop-in roof joists. a simple shed roof seems like it could have easily been integrated.
- ddingus 9y ago
  Agreed. They could also make a similar process to create roofs. Building some support structures maybe a layup type thing, print over the top of that and now you got roofs that can drop in maybe be drilled and bolted together.

atmartins 9y ago

This is possibly a valid point but where are those numbers coming from? Citations please.

jaclaz 9y ago
>This is possibly a valid point but where are those numbers coming from? Citations please. Well I was not attempting to write a Wikipedia article, the numbers are "simplified" and "generic enough", only to provide an "order or magnitude" on the matter. Of course they will change on a country by country base and of course they depend on the kind of building, the local availability of material, equipment and personnel and the scale of the project. They come from some 35 years of experience in the business, across Europe, including some of East Europe and Northern Africa, besides a few other countries. You won't find easily (on the public internet) similar breakdowns, as the only people actually interested in them are contractors and - to a lesser extent - developers, all the rest of industry is based on proposal by contractors or sub-contractors that do not specify how much of this or that goes into each offered price, and even large contracting firms cannot nowadays compute similar breakdowns due to the amplitude of sub-contracting.

newyankee 9y ago

The most expensive resource at least in India is land, followed by water, electricity and other usual needs that cannot be solved merely by solving the housing problem.

dpweb 9y ago

Couple thoughts on those who would criticize. To those who would say the problem is global organization and the will to end homelessness is not sufficient. Its a good point, but the Internet did not explode onto the global scene from a UN commission. Rather an extraordinary technology was unleashed and the world participated, then it became essential. This is a technology. The cost of land? At one point in history, it was not unheard of for the government to grant land to people, for free. Not purely out of generosity but in the long term interests of society. Radical? This is a good example of a worthwhile technology and should be supported. The danger is, when you get the banks and intermediaries involved, now you have an government contractor building the 4000$ house for $40000. Or more! Prices will rise to meet credit availability. The loans are distorted by the Govt guarantee. This is the sad truth of the housing market and 2008 taught us nothing. And a 30 year loan to a very poor person? Ultimately a high risk loan guaranteed by the state. Just like the US housing market today.