6 ms·

To your point - software is king. Any two-bit electronics company can ship a phone, but it's a useless paper weight if it doesn't run the right software. iPhon

by jbob2000 9y ago

To your point - software is king. Any two-bit electronics company can ship a phone, but it's a useless paper weight if it doesn't run the right software. iPhone is generally behind the curve when it comes to hardware specs, but nobody cares about that because iOS is such a strong platform.

lev99 9y ago
iOS also seems to perform better with similar specs than Android.
- pkage 9y ago
  Perks of not running everything in the JVM. Even though it's really fast at this point, it's still going to have more overhead than running apps natively.
  - lev99 9y ago
    Compiled code is faster than bytecode is faster than interpreters. It's not always true, but it's a good rule of thumb.
    - candiodari 9y ago
      It's long established that Java's problem is not the JVM or bytecode but it's memory model. Java's bytecode execution speed in the JVM is good enough that it's on part with C, easily beating any language with even a slightly inefficient compiler, like Go or Haskell.
      - ptx 9y ago
        Are you referring to the lack of value types? Or is there some more fundamental problem?
        candiodari 9y ago
        That's a decent part of it, but also the fact that in Java: class A { B b; } "b" will be a pointer, as opposed to "b" being contained within instances of class A.
  - enitihas 9y ago
    Android does not run anything on the JVM AFAIK.
  - vbezhenar 9y ago
    Does it matter when half of the apps are based on Cordova or React Native, running everything in the JavaScript VM and majority of the games are based on Unity running exactly the same C++ and C# code everywhere. It's not like some calendar app will have major performance gains with native code.
- gruez 9y ago
  this. android phones only seem "better" because they have a buttload of cores (10 in some cases) with weak single threaded performance.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
And the "right" software is often controlled by one company. If you read a lot of reviews of Windows Phones, most reviewers seemed to more or less come to the same conclusion: That Windows was a faster, smoother OS, but that they had trouble going about their daily lives with it because it didn't have Gmail and the other five or six Google Apps they relied on. As long as the market share of any newcomer is low enough, Google can leave them out in the cold for app support (or intentionally interfere by blocking YouTube access, similar to what they did with Windows Mobile, and now Amazon's Echo and Fire platforms), and they'll die off for that reason alone. Whether it's an Android fork or a new OS like Tizen or some new Windows flavor, it won't beat Google unless it has the market share to force Google to support it with apps. And it's hard to get that market share without Google's support.
- RestlessMind 9y ago
  > (or intentionally interfere by blocking YouTube access, similar to what they did with Windows Mobile, and now Amazon's Echo and Fire platforms), Nice spin there! Youtube was blocked on Windows Mobile because Microsoft blatantly blocked all the ads in violation of policy. If Microsoft was in the right here, we would have seen a lot more aggressive posturing from them instead of silent retreat. And for Amazon, it was a reaction to Amazon's decision not to sell Chromecast (and Nest devices). Amazon's excuse is that Google changed Chromecast APIs, which smells weak when you see other supported apps on Chromecast from Netflix, HBO, ESPN etc.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    You are definitely applying your own spin, to be sure. ;) Microsoft tried repeatedly to work with the YouTube team to comply with Google's ToS, but it was a moving target, Google kept changing their requirements until it was largely impossible to comply. The Amazon/Google spat goes back a lot further than that, which I've talked about a bit in other comments here.
  - saurik 9y ago
    If you look at the totality of the evidence, even in that one story (where Microsoft then built the app to Google's specifications, with ads, and then Google waited until they released it before blocking it again), the story looks so bad against Google that even some of the reasonable press was starting to notice and report the issue as Google toying with Microsoft. Here is a link to an overly-well-sourced comment I wrote on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14835776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14835776
tboyd47 9y ago
This is Nintendo's same strategy, I believe.
hantusk 9y ago
That iPhone is behind the curve on hardware specs is not really true. Their CPU+GPU is faster than anything else on the market. And in terms of other hardware (RAM, camera, sensors) I would still say it's arguable
- coldtea 9y ago
  Actually the iPhone is only "behind the curve" in adopting new form factors. Regarding CPU and GPU power, camera quality, and new sensors and stuff, the iPhone has always been the machine to beat.
iainmerrick 9y ago
iPhone is generally behind the curve when it comes to hardware specs Really? In all the benchmarks I've seen, the latest iPhones handily beat the latest Android phones. (And old iPhones remain usable longer than old Android phones.) Assuming the software doesn't get in the way, benchmarks are all about hardware, not software.
- mattnewton 9y ago
  The numbers on the box may be lower (number of cores, ram size), but I agree, benchmarks usually show iPhone very competitive or in the lead.
- wand3r 9y ago
  I couldnt immeadiately find a graph or data but potentially parent was talking about price v performance. The computer offerings historically have been behind the curve but I thought the iPhone performance was strong compared to the field. I would be happy to change my opinion with new information but I agree with you.
- kerberos84 9y ago
  Given that those benchmarks running on operating systems, the software(OS) matters. >And old iPhones remain usable longer than old Android phones. It depends which Android phone you are comparing with. If you compare with a flagship, it should be head-to-head. But i think that is because of stability/efficiency of iOS over android.
  - iainmerrick 9y ago
    Given that those benchmarks running on operating systems, the software(OS) matters. No, if the OS significantly slows down a benchmark, it's a bad OS. Both Android and iOS are fine in this respect. (It's a bit fuzzier for graphics tests, I admit, where driver quality comes into play.)
  - jjrh 9y ago
    > But i think that is because of stability/efficiency of iOS over android. From what I understand iOS is pretty picky about background processes. Limit what can run in the background (and for how long) with android and you will probably get similar results.
zellyn 9y ago
If by "generally behind the curve when it comes to hardware specs" you mean a generation and a half _ahead_, then yes.

lev99 9y ago

iOS also seems to perform better with similar specs than Android.

pkage 9y ago
Perks of not running everything in the JVM. Even though it's really fast at this point, it's still going to have more overhead than running apps natively.
- lev99 9y ago
  Compiled code is faster than bytecode is faster than interpreters. It's not always true, but it's a good rule of thumb.
  - candiodari 9y ago
    It's long established that Java's problem is not the JVM or bytecode but it's memory model. Java's bytecode execution speed in the JVM is good enough that it's on part with C, easily beating any language with even a slightly inefficient compiler, like Go or Haskell.
    - ptx 9y ago
      Are you referring to the lack of value types? Or is there some more fundamental problem?
      - candiodari 9y ago
        That's a decent part of it, but also the fact that in Java: class A { B b; } "b" will be a pointer, as opposed to "b" being contained within instances of class A.
- enitihas 9y ago
  Android does not run anything on the JVM AFAIK.
- vbezhenar 9y ago
  Does it matter when half of the apps are based on Cordova or React Native, running everything in the JavaScript VM and majority of the games are based on Unity running exactly the same C++ and C# code everywhere. It's not like some calendar app will have major performance gains with native code.
gruez 9y ago
this. android phones only seem "better" because they have a buttload of cores (10 in some cases) with weak single threaded performance.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

And the "right" software is often controlled by one company. If you read a lot of reviews of Windows Phones, most reviewers seemed to more or less come to the same conclusion: That Windows was a faster, smoother OS, but that they had trouble going about their daily lives with it because it didn't have Gmail and the other five or six Google Apps they relied on. As long as the market share of any newcomer is low enough, Google can leave them out in the cold for app support (or intentionally interfere by blocking YouTube access, similar to what they did with Windows Mobile, and now Amazon's Echo and Fire platforms), and they'll die off for that reason alone. Whether it's an Android fork or a new OS like Tizen or some new Windows flavor, it won't beat Google unless it has the market share to force Google to support it with apps. And it's hard to get that market share without Google's support.

RestlessMind 9y ago
> (or intentionally interfere by blocking YouTube access, similar to what they did with Windows Mobile, and now Amazon's Echo and Fire platforms), Nice spin there! Youtube was blocked on Windows Mobile because Microsoft blatantly blocked all the ads in violation of policy. If Microsoft was in the right here, we would have seen a lot more aggressive posturing from them instead of silent retreat. And for Amazon, it was a reaction to Amazon's decision not to sell Chromecast (and Nest devices). Amazon's excuse is that Google changed Chromecast APIs, which smells weak when you see other supported apps on Chromecast from Netflix, HBO, ESPN etc.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  You are definitely applying your own spin, to be sure. ;) Microsoft tried repeatedly to work with the YouTube team to comply with Google's ToS, but it was a moving target, Google kept changing their requirements until it was largely impossible to comply. The Amazon/Google spat goes back a lot further than that, which I've talked about a bit in other comments here.
- saurik 9y ago
  If you look at the totality of the evidence, even in that one story (where Microsoft then built the app to Google's specifications, with ads, and then Google waited until they released it before blocking it again), the story looks so bad against Google that even some of the reasonable press was starting to notice and report the issue as Google toying with Microsoft. Here is a link to an overly-well-sourced comment I wrote on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14835776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14835776

tboyd47 9y ago

This is Nintendo's same strategy, I believe.

hantusk 9y ago

That iPhone is behind the curve on hardware specs is not really true. Their CPU+GPU is faster than anything else on the market. And in terms of other hardware (RAM, camera, sensors) I would still say it's arguable

coldtea 9y ago
Actually the iPhone is only "behind the curve" in adopting new form factors. Regarding CPU and GPU power, camera quality, and new sensors and stuff, the iPhone has always been the machine to beat.

iainmerrick 9y ago

iPhone is generally behind the curve when it comes to hardware specs Really? In all the benchmarks I've seen, the latest iPhones handily beat the latest Android phones. (And old iPhones remain usable longer than old Android phones.) Assuming the software doesn't get in the way, benchmarks are all about hardware, not software.

mattnewton 9y ago
The numbers on the box may be lower (number of cores, ram size), but I agree, benchmarks usually show iPhone very competitive or in the lead.
wand3r 9y ago
I couldnt immeadiately find a graph or data but potentially parent was talking about price v performance. The computer offerings historically have been behind the curve but I thought the iPhone performance was strong compared to the field. I would be happy to change my opinion with new information but I agree with you.
kerberos84 9y ago
Given that those benchmarks running on operating systems, the software(OS) matters. >And old iPhones remain usable longer than old Android phones. It depends which Android phone you are comparing with. If you compare with a flagship, it should be head-to-head. But i think that is because of stability/efficiency of iOS over android.
- iainmerrick 9y ago
  Given that those benchmarks running on operating systems, the software(OS) matters. No, if the OS significantly slows down a benchmark, it's a bad OS. Both Android and iOS are fine in this respect. (It's a bit fuzzier for graphics tests, I admit, where driver quality comes into play.)
- jjrh 9y ago
  > But i think that is because of stability/efficiency of iOS over android. From what I understand iOS is pretty picky about background processes. Limit what can run in the background (and for how long) with android and you will probably get similar results.

zellyn 9y ago

If by "generally behind the curve when it comes to hardware specs" you mean a generation and a half _ahead_, then yes.