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> Coal is not conscious, it cannot want. This is pedantic to the point of wilfully not wanting to understand that the coal industry is implied with that statem

> Coal is not conscious, it cannot want. This is pedantic to the point of wilfully not wanting to understand that the coal industry is implied with that statement. But if we're going down the pedantic route: > Going out of business is capitalism's way of saying your product is no longer required. Demand and need are correlated, but not the same. Capitalism works with the former, and also has an entire industry devoted to creating demand when there is no need. I'm not saying capitalism is bad - it is an amoral system and a very effective tool for a lot of things. By itself self-regulates only to the vested interests of the people wielding the tools within the capitalist system, and this does not have to align with societal or planetary needs.

d0lph 9y ago
Capitalism exclusively aligns with societal needs, if society does not need or want something we don't buy it, the business evolves or goes bankrupt. Capitalism is not just amoral, but also is democratic in nature.
- OrganicMSG 9y ago
  If society does not need or want something, there is an entire industry devoted to convincing society otherwise, that uses psychological and social modelling on vast and detailed databases of the targeted population. Democratic systems these days are not followed, they are moulded.
  - d0lph 9y ago
    Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective.
    - dpark 9y ago
      > Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. No, there is no debate. No one seriously argues that companies pour half a trillion dollars into advertising that doesn't work. > However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective. It does matter. If the tug of war is between two companies that want you to buy their version of X, there is still no one advertising that you should not buy X at all. This is known as growing the market. Demand is still created in this case.
      - d0lph 9y ago
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/research-shows-millennials-dont-respond-to-ads/#2fc4bf785dcb https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/researc... It's at least not a new thought. Mostly though I'm skeptical that advertising is subverting capitalism. Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it. Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position.
        dpark 9y ago
        That article has very little concrete info in it, but the core is not that advertising doesn't work but that advertising to millennials effectively requires updated approaches. I certainly would not say that advertising "subverts" capitalism. Advertising is part of capitalism. It always has been. You can't get your wagon repaired if you don't know where the wagon repair shop is. Advertising is also part of the capitalism chain. Companies demand advertising, so it exists. > Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it. You're describing creating demand. Someone didn't want something because they didn't know it existed. Now they want it. This is the most effective advertising possible. > Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position. Ok? If you exit the default position because you saw an ad, the ad worked.

d0lph 9y ago

Capitalism exclusively aligns with societal needs, if society does not need or want something we don't buy it, the business evolves or goes bankrupt. Capitalism is not just amoral, but also is democratic in nature.

OrganicMSG 9y ago
If society does not need or want something, there is an entire industry devoted to convincing society otherwise, that uses psychological and social modelling on vast and detailed databases of the targeted population. Democratic systems these days are not followed, they are moulded.
- d0lph 9y ago
  Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective.
  - dpark 9y ago
    > Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. No, there is no debate. No one seriously argues that companies pour half a trillion dollars into advertising that doesn't work. > However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective. It does matter. If the tug of war is between two companies that want you to buy their version of X, there is still no one advertising that you should not buy X at all. This is known as growing the market. Demand is still created in this case.
    - d0lph 9y ago
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/research-shows-millennials-dont-respond-to-ads/#2fc4bf785dcb https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/researc... It's at least not a new thought. Mostly though I'm skeptical that advertising is subverting capitalism. Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it. Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position.
      - dpark 9y ago
        That article has very little concrete info in it, but the core is not that advertising doesn't work but that advertising to millennials effectively requires updated approaches. I certainly would not say that advertising "subverts" capitalism. Advertising is part of capitalism. It always has been. You can't get your wagon repaired if you don't know where the wagon repair shop is. Advertising is also part of the capitalism chain. Companies demand advertising, so it exists. > Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it. You're describing creating demand. Someone didn't want something because they didn't know it existed. Now they want it. This is the most effective advertising possible. > Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position. Ok? If you exit the default position because you saw an ad, the ad worked.