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As much as I like IRC, I don't get why the author hates slack so much. I dislike slack (probably because of the culture in Slack groups) but I do think that hav

As much as I like IRC, I don't get why the author hates slack so much. I dislike slack (probably because of the culture in Slack groups) but I do think that having a mobile app & ease of use is why Slack is okay. Not having to deal with different servers & terminology that look scary also helps (a lot) for most people using Slack. Most people who use Slack haven't ever used IRC professionally (or at all) - I've shown IRC to people who love Slack and I usually get "Ugh, it looks so old fashioned and difficult to use" as a reaction. Looks matters a lot if you want people to use it - most IRC clients are old or have designs based on old clients. Plenty of Slack clones out there that look decent that have similar business models. What would be awesome if there's an IRC server that looked and acted like Slack; nice features like: - a website to log into like Slack (with benefits like modern web design and Github, Twitter, Facebook login). - an irc client that looks decent on website, desktop and phone clients (and doesn't run on electron). - having multiple channels for one company like Slack channels in a group. IRC currently requires you to register several channels (which is annoying). ------------ As for the difficulty in writing bots for Slack vs IRC, sure it's easier to write stuff for Slack because: - most Slack bots/services are written by companies who want their third party services to be easily integrated into whatever team communication their client use. - most custom bots are variation of some bots that someone else has written (anecdotal evidence but pretty sure it's true). I'm pretty sure it's not that different for irc. - most people don't bother writing bots unless they're willing to play around with bots; difficulty isn't an issue when it comes to writing one and I haven't seen bot development treated as an actual task (it's more of a hack that works and isn't really touched again.) ------------ Honestly, this seems to be a case where the author neglects how real-life people work in favor of code "niceness" (for lack of a better term). There's a reason why most people use Microsoft products (and it isn't because they make great software.)

llao 9y ago
> I don't get why the author hates slack so much. He gives a nice reasoning in the last paragraph: Slack is a walled garden. Their proprietary API is defined by them and only implemented by them. They can and will shut off parts you depend on (like the IRC+XMPP gateways that were just shut down).
- nickez 9y ago
  > Their proprietary API is defined by them and only implemented by them. Is this really true though? Doesn't Mattermost have a slack-ish-compatible interface?
  - llao 9y ago
    Well, others can try to implement parts of it but it is a cat and mouse game of wasting human resources. Mattermost managed to get some compatibility https://docs.mattermost.com/developer/webhooks-incoming.html#slack-compatibility https://docs.mattermost.com/developer/webhooks-incoming.html...
SlowBro 9y ago
What’s the nicest looking IRC client these days? I lately only ever use any chat client sporadically so I’m out of touch, but may be needing a platform soon. Interesting note: I worked at AOL when AIM was introduced and was one of the first users :-P When I moved to tech support of a local cable internet company that was our official work chat :-)
- mattcoles 9y ago
  If you have a Mac, Textual is a great IRC client although their upgrade policy is a bit frustrating, in that upgrades don't seem to be free for life, only discounted.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    'Great' is relative. Textual (and Colloquy) are tolerable at best.
- kough 9y ago
  I use Limechat on OSX and Hexchat on Windows and am mildly dissatisfied with both.
  - elsurudo 9y ago
    I already commented on this, but have you tried Colloquy for Mac? http://colloquy.info http://colloquy.info
- croon 9y ago
  As someone who's been on irc since the mid 90s and have had and still do have a couple of Irssis running in screens for 10+ years, I have to say that irccloud is pretty great for ease of use. There was an open source clone called ircanywhere, but it seems abandoned. I have no idea what the future holds, and I always welcome new tools and disruptions, and I'm using slack, discord, messenger etc for various communities. What keeps me from leaving irc is: * friction in moving all users that have been using an IRC channel for 20 years * stupid stuff in slack and messenger like lock in and slow search. I really like grep:ing logs for links and discussions and then reading the context up and down, which I have found difficult in web services.
Jaruzel 9y ago
> I've shown IRC to people who love Slack and I usually get "Ugh, it looks so old fashioned and difficult to use" as a reaction. This is the exact reason why I don't like Slack - It takes up WAY too much screen estate. At least with IRC I can format it in a way that I prefer, AND be able to use the rest of my screen for other tasks.
- simias 9y ago
  Slack and Discord (which seem to be the "hype" chats these days) are pigs both in terms of real estate and resource usage. I can easily see a backlog of nearly a hundred messages in a single terminal IRC frame but I'm lucky if I can see 10 messages in Slack or Discord. So much scrolling to catch up with chat history, not to mention how laggy it feels if you don't have a high end PC. I can't easily script the client, I can't easily self-host and script the server and I'm stuck with a proprietary architecture at the whims of the devs. Amazing. You'll have to pry irssi out of my cold dead hands.
nopacience 9y ago
Most people who use Slack haven't ever used IRC professionally (or at all) - I've shown IRC to people who love Slack and I usually get "Ugh, it looks so old fashioned and difficult to use" as a reaction. Probably the same people that never used a terminal and have the same reaction at first. And then you teach them a thing or two, let them evolve and weeks later when you less expect it, that same person is thriving on the terminal he hated initially. I have seen this happen a couple times... windows people saying linux is awkward. or even that i3-wm is awkward, until they get to learn it and they completely change their mind. Slack has its merits, but plain IRC also works fine. The same people that prefer slack because they never really tried IRC, might say they prefer slack because it allows them to write BOTs. BOTs in irc is easy, there are 3 kind of bots: - bots that interact: User types something in a channel or via private message. The bot will receive that message and the user that typed it. then it will parse the message and take an action. Examples of interaction messages: -- msg to bot: google this: "time now ?" (then the bot connects to google and makes a query and replies to this message): UTC 10h20 -- msg to bot: reboot - bots that say stuff: You are on a chatroom and then all of a sudden a bot joins and says something ie. "Your new website has been updated". OR, "Someone made a pullrequest on github, please somebody go there and accept it" - a mix of those 2: the bot will say stuff and also accept/interact commands IRC is really simple. The bot simply reads text and takes action. Or, just take action and talk on the channel. Its completely diffrent from slack bots because it is simpler it will not need the programmer to set up a WEB SERVER in order to receive messages from slack. Seriously.. the bot should connect there just like the user does and read messages, parse and take action. Long live IRC =) BOTs that say stuff works this way: You are on a channel and then all of a sudden a BOT joins and says: "The new release of your website has been successfully updated"
- yoz-y 9y ago
  Well, you can set up a web server using netcat too. Just recently there was an article on HN doing basically that. However Slack does require HTTPS which complicates things, but is also quite a must in current day and age.
- yoz-y 9y ago
  > And then you teach them a thing or two, let them evolve and weeks later when you less expect it, that same person is thriving on the terminal he hated initially. I have seen this happen a couple times... windows people saying linux is awkward. or even that i3-wm is awkward, until they get to learn it and they completely change their mind. Usually I have met two kinds of people. Those who do not need any motivation to learn new things about computers. And those who will just flat out refuse to learn anything that remotely does not look like what they are already accustomed to.
eximius 9y ago
Slack is literally worse than XMPP or IRC at most things. The only improvement that Slack has is newer UI and you can bill someone to manage it on your company's behalf instead of paying someone in house.

llao 9y ago

> I don't get why the author hates slack so much. He gives a nice reasoning in the last paragraph: Slack is a walled garden. Their proprietary API is defined by them and only implemented by them. They can and will shut off parts you depend on (like the IRC+XMPP gateways that were just shut down).

nickez 9y ago
> Their proprietary API is defined by them and only implemented by them. Is this really true though? Doesn't Mattermost have a slack-ish-compatible interface?
- llao 9y ago
  Well, others can try to implement parts of it but it is a cat and mouse game of wasting human resources. Mattermost managed to get some compatibility https://docs.mattermost.com/developer/webhooks-incoming.html#slack-compatibility https://docs.mattermost.com/developer/webhooks-incoming.html...

SlowBro 9y ago

What’s the nicest looking IRC client these days? I lately only ever use any chat client sporadically so I’m out of touch, but may be needing a platform soon. Interesting note: I worked at AOL when AIM was introduced and was one of the first users :-P When I moved to tech support of a local cable internet company that was our official work chat :-)

mattcoles 9y ago
If you have a Mac, Textual is a great IRC client although their upgrade policy is a bit frustrating, in that upgrades don't seem to be free for life, only discounted.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  'Great' is relative. Textual (and Colloquy) are tolerable at best.
kough 9y ago
I use Limechat on OSX and Hexchat on Windows and am mildly dissatisfied with both.
- elsurudo 9y ago
  I already commented on this, but have you tried Colloquy for Mac? http://colloquy.info http://colloquy.info
croon 9y ago
As someone who's been on irc since the mid 90s and have had and still do have a couple of Irssis running in screens for 10+ years, I have to say that irccloud is pretty great for ease of use. There was an open source clone called ircanywhere, but it seems abandoned. I have no idea what the future holds, and I always welcome new tools and disruptions, and I'm using slack, discord, messenger etc for various communities. What keeps me from leaving irc is: * friction in moving all users that have been using an IRC channel for 20 years * stupid stuff in slack and messenger like lock in and slow search. I really like grep:ing logs for links and discussions and then reading the context up and down, which I have found difficult in web services.

Jaruzel 9y ago

> I've shown IRC to people who love Slack and I usually get "Ugh, it looks so old fashioned and difficult to use" as a reaction. This is the exact reason why I don't like Slack - It takes up WAY too much screen estate. At least with IRC I can format it in a way that I prefer, AND be able to use the rest of my screen for other tasks.

simias 9y ago
Slack and Discord (which seem to be the "hype" chats these days) are pigs both in terms of real estate and resource usage. I can easily see a backlog of nearly a hundred messages in a single terminal IRC frame but I'm lucky if I can see 10 messages in Slack or Discord. So much scrolling to catch up with chat history, not to mention how laggy it feels if you don't have a high end PC. I can't easily script the client, I can't easily self-host and script the server and I'm stuck with a proprietary architecture at the whims of the devs. Amazing. You'll have to pry irssi out of my cold dead hands.

nopacience 9y ago

Most people who use Slack haven't ever used IRC professionally (or at all) - I've shown IRC to people who love Slack and I usually get "Ugh, it looks so old fashioned and difficult to use" as a reaction. Probably the same people that never used a terminal and have the same reaction at first. And then you teach them a thing or two, let them evolve and weeks later when you less expect it, that same person is thriving on the terminal he hated initially. I have seen this happen a couple times... windows people saying linux is awkward. or even that i3-wm is awkward, until they get to learn it and they completely change their mind. Slack has its merits, but plain IRC also works fine. The same people that prefer slack because they never really tried IRC, might say they prefer slack because it allows them to write BOTs. BOTs in irc is easy, there are 3 kind of bots: - bots that interact: User types something in a channel or via private message. The bot will receive that message and the user that typed it. then it will parse the message and take an action. Examples of interaction messages: -- msg to bot: google this: "time now ?" (then the bot connects to google and makes a query and replies to this message): UTC 10h20 -- msg to bot: reboot - bots that say stuff: You are on a chatroom and then all of a sudden a bot joins and says something ie. "Your new website has been updated". OR, "Someone made a pullrequest on github, please somebody go there and accept it" - a mix of those 2: the bot will say stuff and also accept/interact commands IRC is really simple. The bot simply reads text and takes action. Or, just take action and talk on the channel. Its completely diffrent from slack bots because it is simpler it will not need the programmer to set up a WEB SERVER in order to receive messages from slack. Seriously.. the bot should connect there just like the user does and read messages, parse and take action. Long live IRC =) BOTs that say stuff works this way: You are on a channel and then all of a sudden a BOT joins and says: "The new release of your website has been successfully updated"

yoz-y 9y ago
Well, you can set up a web server using netcat too. Just recently there was an article on HN doing basically that. However Slack does require HTTPS which complicates things, but is also quite a must in current day and age.
yoz-y 9y ago
> And then you teach them a thing or two, let them evolve and weeks later when you less expect it, that same person is thriving on the terminal he hated initially. I have seen this happen a couple times... windows people saying linux is awkward. or even that i3-wm is awkward, until they get to learn it and they completely change their mind. Usually I have met two kinds of people. Those who do not need any motivation to learn new things about computers. And those who will just flat out refuse to learn anything that remotely does not look like what they are already accustomed to.

eximius 9y ago

Slack is literally worse than XMPP or IRC at most things. The only improvement that Slack has is newer UI and you can bill someone to manage it on your company's behalf instead of paying someone in house.