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I don't mean to diminish the work done here, but I can't bring myself to use any home automation that relies on internet and 3rd party services. The whole "I ca

I don't mean to diminish the work done here, but I can't bring myself to use any home automation that relies on internet and 3rd party services. The whole "I can't turn off my lights/adjust my thermostat/close my garage door because the internet is down" is a cliche these days, but also reality when you use services like these. There's a difference between core and nice to have services (eg, ability to tell you the weather), but I consider light, door, and temperature control to be "core": having a dozen separate points of failure is just bad design. You could consider voice control nice-to-have, but if it works well, I have a feeling it would move to being core. If it doesn't work well enough to be used all the time (and thus irritatingly missed when it's broken), why bother? I'm aware of Mycroft; anyone have experience with it or alternatives?

fred256 9y ago
The IKEA lights that the article talks about have remotes [1] that work independently of the smart home gateway. [1] http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20303317/ http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20303317/
melling 9y ago
I guess if it doesn’t work for you, you should skip the thread so as not to drown out the effort. Someday someone might come along and build the thing you want. Perhaps they will build on this project.
- dpark 9y ago
  His criticism is reasonable. There is a line between valuable criticism and pointless negativity. The latter deserves the “if you don’t like it, go away” response. The former does not. The line is fuzzy, so err on the side of leniency. Now, if there is a flaw in the criticism, address that, not the mere fact that it is criticism.
  - melling 9y ago
    It’s like people who jump in an a discussion about electric vehicles then filling the comments with “I won’t buy one until the range increases“. Their criticism is also legitimate. People should simply realize the product isn’t for them.
    - dpark 9y ago
      That’s also a reasonable response and if I had a conversation about EVs with a large group of friends, I would expect one of them to make that comment. I would not expect the person with that sentiment to simply walk away rather than engage.
      - melling 9y ago
        But everyone already knows they have limited range. You aren’t adding to the online conversation. You aren’t going to change anything. Often in long conversations, people chime in without reading the conversation and several people make the same “observation”. In this conversation, we know there are downsides to cloud-based voice recognition. Telling someone who built it that it’s not for you, doesn’t add any value.
        dpark 9y ago
        > But everyone already knows they have limited range. You aren’t adding to the online conversation. You aren’t going to change anything. Realistically everything in this hypothetical conversation will be things that “everyone” knows. Unless you’re discussing confidential info about EVs, everything is by definition public knowledge and probably even common knowledge. Most conversations are about opinions rather than facts. Is the guy who comments about EVs having all their torque available from a standstill also adding nothing to the conversation? What about the guy who mentions the environmental friendliness? Or the one who mentions the environmental costs of lithium mining? Who is really adding to the conversation here? > In this conversation, we know there are downsides to cloud-based voice recognition. Telling someone who built it that it’s not for you, doesn’t add any value. And yet it’s the top comment and the top reply provides info about a platform that doesn’t have the same drawback. I think this is pretty clearly value added.
- white-flame 9y ago
  In addition to the peer response, notice the GP comment is (at least currently) top-ranked. They're not alone.
- ToyToyTotsToy 9y ago
  This isn't a Rube Goldberg fan club forum or sub-reddit, so the criticism is not only welcome but highly deserved. See? It checks all the nonsense boxes! * Garbage hardware - ikea, works in the home AND the landfill! * "Home automation" - barely automating the lights, barely happening in the home * NodeJS - because it's the -cool- thing to do these days, despite being trash * IFTTT - How many third-parties can we invoke? * Google Assistant - How much data can we give Google?
- brokenmachine 9y ago
  And yet there are people commenting further down with on-device voice products that exist now. I wasn't interested in a product that has to report to the NSA that I turned my lights on, and I didn't know about those... So I'm happy that this comment thread is not the echo chamber you desire.
oulipo 9y ago
Hi! I'm the co-founder of https://snips.ai https://snips.ai and we build a 100% on-device Voice AI platform. The ASR and NLU are running on a Raspberry Pi 3, and best of all it is free and we are open-sourcing it, starting with the NLU https://github.com/snipsco/snips-nlu https://github.com/snipsco/snips-nlu https://medium.com/snips-ai/snips-nlu-is-an-open-source-private-by-design-alternative-to-dialogflow-amazon-lex-and-other-nlu-a95dbe16f4a1 https://medium.com/snips-ai/snips-nlu-is-an-open-source-priv... The whole platform runs on-device which makes it ideal for privacy, cost, and to allow it to run when there is no network We are available in English, French, German, and soon Japanese and Korean, with more European languages coming! We would love to see what you can build with it, and linking it to Ikea lights should be 10 lines of Python Take a look at what some people have built with it: https://github.com/snipsco/awesome-snips https://github.com/snipsco/awesome-snips and a few tutorials to get you started: https://medium.com/snips-ai/building-a-voice-controlled-home-sound-system-using-snips-and-sonos-2aaf16523ce9 https://medium.com/snips-ai/building-a-voice-controlled-home...
- TomMarius 9y ago
  Is there any way to help you with Euro languages? I'd gladly help you with Czech, it's hard to get right.
  - oulipo 9y ago
    We will be working on this too, probably this year
Eridrus 9y ago
Every smart bulb I've seen has a fallback where toggling the light switch turns it on, even if the software state was off. 3rd party services going away is a legitimate concern, but that's true of basically every piece of technology these days.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- gh02t 9y ago
  People seem to miss that Hue and Tradfri both have local APIs too (http and CoAP based), they work without an Internet connection. The bulbs themselves are ZHA compatible as well, you can pair them with your own controllers instead of the gateway.
tritium 9y ago
The problem with this type of system is that the primary benefit is outnumbered by at least two unwanted detriments. The primary benefit is that remote control can be effective from around the world and outer space. This is countered by the reality that your command might get bounced off a satellite, even if you’re across the room from the device you’re controlling remotely. The converse additional problem is that you could be standing next to a device on the north pole, and someone from antarctica could override you. We haven’t become sophisticated enough about this level of remote control yet, to mitigate these undesirable side effects of extended range remoting via internet tunnels.
tomtimtall 9y ago
You sound like an old man decrying escalators because you won’t rely on any means of transportation that requires electricity to function.... escalators without electricity are just stairs, IKEA lights controlled through google home without internet are just lightbulbs controlled by the wireless switch. Just like your google home without internet is just a wireless speaker. In all cases it’s just nice features that are super pleasant to use in practice and preople just don’t know how nice it feels to have them until the experience them for themselves.

fred256 9y ago

The IKEA lights that the article talks about have remotes [1] that work independently of the smart home gateway. [1] http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20303317/ http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20303317/

melling 9y ago

I guess if it doesn’t work for you, you should skip the thread so as not to drown out the effort. Someday someone might come along and build the thing you want. Perhaps they will build on this project.

dpark 9y ago
His criticism is reasonable. There is a line between valuable criticism and pointless negativity. The latter deserves the “if you don’t like it, go away” response. The former does not. The line is fuzzy, so err on the side of leniency. Now, if there is a flaw in the criticism, address that, not the mere fact that it is criticism.
- melling 9y ago
  It’s like people who jump in an a discussion about electric vehicles then filling the comments with “I won’t buy one until the range increases“. Their criticism is also legitimate. People should simply realize the product isn’t for them.
  - dpark 9y ago
    That’s also a reasonable response and if I had a conversation about EVs with a large group of friends, I would expect one of them to make that comment. I would not expect the person with that sentiment to simply walk away rather than engage.
    - melling 9y ago
      But everyone already knows they have limited range. You aren’t adding to the online conversation. You aren’t going to change anything. Often in long conversations, people chime in without reading the conversation and several people make the same “observation”. In this conversation, we know there are downsides to cloud-based voice recognition. Telling someone who built it that it’s not for you, doesn’t add any value.
      - dpark 9y ago
        > But everyone already knows they have limited range. You aren’t adding to the online conversation. You aren’t going to change anything. Realistically everything in this hypothetical conversation will be things that “everyone” knows. Unless you’re discussing confidential info about EVs, everything is by definition public knowledge and probably even common knowledge. Most conversations are about opinions rather than facts. Is the guy who comments about EVs having all their torque available from a standstill also adding nothing to the conversation? What about the guy who mentions the environmental friendliness? Or the one who mentions the environmental costs of lithium mining? Who is really adding to the conversation here? > In this conversation, we know there are downsides to cloud-based voice recognition. Telling someone who built it that it’s not for you, doesn’t add any value. And yet it’s the top comment and the top reply provides info about a platform that doesn’t have the same drawback. I think this is pretty clearly value added.
white-flame 9y ago
In addition to the peer response, notice the GP comment is (at least currently) top-ranked. They're not alone.
ToyToyTotsToy 9y ago
This isn't a Rube Goldberg fan club forum or sub-reddit, so the criticism is not only welcome but highly deserved. See? It checks all the nonsense boxes! * Garbage hardware - ikea, works in the home AND the landfill! * "Home automation" - barely automating the lights, barely happening in the home * NodeJS - because it's the -cool- thing to do these days, despite being trash * IFTTT - How many third-parties can we invoke? * Google Assistant - How much data can we give Google?
brokenmachine 9y ago
And yet there are people commenting further down with on-device voice products that exist now. I wasn't interested in a product that has to report to the NSA that I turned my lights on, and I didn't know about those... So I'm happy that this comment thread is not the echo chamber you desire.

oulipo 9y ago

Hi! I'm the co-founder of https://snips.ai https://snips.ai and we build a 100% on-device Voice AI platform. The ASR and NLU are running on a Raspberry Pi 3, and best of all it is free and we are open-sourcing it, starting with the NLU https://github.com/snipsco/snips-nlu https://github.com/snipsco/snips-nlu https://medium.com/snips-ai/snips-nlu-is-an-open-source-private-by-design-alternative-to-dialogflow-amazon-lex-and-other-nlu-a95dbe16f4a1 https://medium.com/snips-ai/snips-nlu-is-an-open-source-priv... The whole platform runs on-device which makes it ideal for privacy, cost, and to allow it to run when there is no network We are available in English, French, German, and soon Japanese and Korean, with more European languages coming! We would love to see what you can build with it, and linking it to Ikea lights should be 10 lines of Python Take a look at what some people have built with it: https://github.com/snipsco/awesome-snips https://github.com/snipsco/awesome-snips and a few tutorials to get you started: https://medium.com/snips-ai/building-a-voice-controlled-home-sound-system-using-snips-and-sonos-2aaf16523ce9 https://medium.com/snips-ai/building-a-voice-controlled-home...

TomMarius 9y ago
Is there any way to help you with Euro languages? I'd gladly help you with Czech, it's hard to get right.
- oulipo 9y ago
  We will be working on this too, probably this year

Eridrus 9y ago

Every smart bulb I've seen has a fallback where toggling the light switch turns it on, even if the software state was off. 3rd party services going away is a legitimate concern, but that's true of basically every piece of technology these days.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gh02t 9y ago
People seem to miss that Hue and Tradfri both have local APIs too (http and CoAP based), they work without an Internet connection. The bulbs themselves are ZHA compatible as well, you can pair them with your own controllers instead of the gateway.

tritium 9y ago

The problem with this type of system is that the primary benefit is outnumbered by at least two unwanted detriments. The primary benefit is that remote control can be effective from around the world and outer space. This is countered by the reality that your command might get bounced off a satellite, even if you’re across the room from the device you’re controlling remotely. The converse additional problem is that you could be standing next to a device on the north pole, and someone from antarctica could override you. We haven’t become sophisticated enough about this level of remote control yet, to mitigate these undesirable side effects of extended range remoting via internet tunnels.

tomtimtall 9y ago

You sound like an old man decrying escalators because you won’t rely on any means of transportation that requires electricity to function.... escalators without electricity are just stairs, IKEA lights controlled through google home without internet are just lightbulbs controlled by the wireless switch. Just like your google home without internet is just a wireless speaker. In all cases it’s just nice features that are super pleasant to use in practice and preople just don’t know how nice it feels to have them until the experience them for themselves.