9 ms·

I definitely feel games like Sims and Simcity changed my perception of resource safety as a child. I played Sims/Simcity2000~3000/Civs for hundreds of hours as

I definitely feel games like Sims and Simcity changed my perception of resource safety as a child. I played Sims/Simcity2000~3000/Civs for hundreds of hours as a kid, and I loved the "realistic" feels and setups of these games. When I started to play I always had later stage trouble when I'm overspending on building fancy roads and bridges in SimCity or buying expensive items up front. I slowly learned the way of setting up a less impressive base first, and swapping out parts and do re-designs and expansions as more resources became available. I later found out all games have a specific pattern you follow to win, many of these patterns are available in online communities/guides/cheat sections where I'd spend tons of time to read, try and experiment. Those were probably the peak happiness and best time I've enjoyed as a little nerdy kid. I never thought too much a big deal of these experiences but nonetheless I believe definitely contributed to a base reality of how resource management work, and how I manage my personal projects, finance, and career choices as I grew up. I'd be super curious to see research / longitudinal study coming up from the past 2-3 decades of gaming on kids, and see if conservative gaming styles leads to conservative financial decisions etc etc. I'm not a father yet but I thought it would be a really cool idea to understand my kid through game play like this, but I also don't want the kids to be limited by my personal value though these interactions - sort of like the "observer and supporter" role the author played. Sidenote: I'm still playing the latest Civ6 and still enjoy a lot from the dynamics in the economy managements with A.I..

c3534l 9y ago
Even something like Civilization can be expressive and educational. I mean, I also loved Mortal Kombat as a kid, before my parents figured out it was a game where you could punch a man so hard you could pull his beating heart out of his chest. But I also remember learning about ecology from SimEarth, and learning how to balance a budge from Theme Park.
- bwang29 9y ago
  I think combat games teach a lot about improvisation, especially if you're playing against another human, you'd have to adapt in realtime the pattern the other person is using and trying to develop a strategy to counter the other person's attack/defense. In recent combat games, the startup/cooldown time are so precise that pro players literally need to remember, compute and combine maths in their game plays in real time into combos.
sdfin 9y ago
Resource management in video games is a skill that I'm sure transfers to real world resource management. Apart from the simulators you mention strategy games like age of empires and red alert also teach about it. Some weeks ago a co-worker told me something similar to what you share, how he learned about resources while playing SimCity. He also said his younger sister asked him "If people doesn't have money, why doesn't the government print money and gives it to people?". He said that playing SimCity would have prevented his sister from asking such a naive question. I also would love so see the results of research about these games on kids. Maybe someday kids will play Sim City and AoE at elementary school or similar games designed for schools.
- gowld 9y ago
  It's not a naive question. She was on the verge of re-inventing Keynesian Economics, which ended the Great Depression. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/keynesianeconomics.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/keynesianeconomics.asp
  - icelancer 9y ago
    >> Keynesian Economics, which ended the Great Depression This is a pretty bold claim and not one that should be stated as fact.
    - gonzo41 9y ago
      Keynesian Economics kept Australia out of recession in 08. They literally gave everyone 800 bucks. It was awesome, went out a bit more, bought lots of takeout and a few bits for around the house. And the economy kept moving. Now if only i could figure out a way to get more people to live in my SIM tower!
      - roel_v 9y ago
        Yeah, I'm sure that mining boom had nothing to do with it...
      - 9y ago
skookumchuck 9y ago
I'd be very careful about applying lessons from a game to the real world. Lots of games designed by economists, for example, tend to validate the pet theories of the economists, despite not working in the real world. Real world economics is infinitely more complex than the handful of rules in a game.
- Retric 9y ago
  I think the biggest difference is most games tend to have anything not dead + positive resource stream = a win. People tend to build city's / county's / etc that go through a major such phase to maximize resource collection. In reality you generally don't want to have 40 years of suck to get to some long term gain, because you need to live those 40 years.
  - lione 9y ago
    You mean some sort of great leap forward produces negative results for your citizens until it's completed? I swear I heard a story similar to that in reality.
    - Retric 9y ago
      The thing is relative to most developing nations China has had very slow economic growth. Yes, with a massive population, but China ranks 110 by purchasing power per person. It's economy is terrible, the only thing it has going for it is scale. And it's not like it has a massive population density either ranking at #80 world wide.
      - hobbes78 9y ago
        http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ChinaGDP_2e.jpg http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
        Retric 9y ago
        developing nations USA in 1980 was already a developed nation with a high relative standard of living. It could only grow GDP by inventing new technology and process not simply import proven tech. China's continued failures are massive and ongoing. Some numbers look ok relative to their past failures but that's about it.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
I play a lot of poker, and will risk hundreds of dollars on a single hand. All of my 401k is in money market mutual funds. I'm not sure that a straight up games-to-financial-decision type study would be useful, there are many different motivations between playing games or even gambling, and financial decisions.
- prdonahue 9y ago
  I hope by "money market mutual funds" you mean some general sort of passive-markets based investment approach (not actually holding 100% of your 401k in cash-like instruments)?
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    Money market mutual funds is a very well defined term.
- pdpi 9y ago
  I’d argue that, if you have a healthy relationship with skill-based gambling (i.e. poker, not roulette), you’re likelier to come out the other side with a clearer appreciation for risk and reward. Or, more bluntly: There’s nothing like being acutely aware how easily you can lose your stack on a bad gamble to make you invest your savings wisely. :)
tajen 9y ago
That’s why I never succeeded for long in Simcity 2000! I would buy the biggest items, because you know, you gotta invest, you gotta see big, so I’d buy the nuclear plant as soon as available because you know, availability makes businesses develop quicker. And I’d always fail because the slightest glitch (monster, earthquake, riot) would ruin the objectives! Aside from being influenced by government advertising (“This airport in a no-man’s land is going to develop the no-man’s land into a city!”), it also influenced my entrepreneur life: Why see small when you can invest all you have and get increasingly more return? Why spend time debugging when I could have this other big feature on the marketing material? And that’s why I never went past a few hours in Simcity, and why my cousin, a less entreprising person, would succeed more! Ha! What a cautionary tale.

c3534l 9y ago

Even something like Civilization can be expressive and educational. I mean, I also loved Mortal Kombat as a kid, before my parents figured out it was a game where you could punch a man so hard you could pull his beating heart out of his chest. But I also remember learning about ecology from SimEarth, and learning how to balance a budge from Theme Park.

bwang29 9y ago
I think combat games teach a lot about improvisation, especially if you're playing against another human, you'd have to adapt in realtime the pattern the other person is using and trying to develop a strategy to counter the other person's attack/defense. In recent combat games, the startup/cooldown time are so precise that pro players literally need to remember, compute and combine maths in their game plays in real time into combos.

sdfin 9y ago

Resource management in video games is a skill that I'm sure transfers to real world resource management. Apart from the simulators you mention strategy games like age of empires and red alert also teach about it. Some weeks ago a co-worker told me something similar to what you share, how he learned about resources while playing SimCity. He also said his younger sister asked him "If people doesn't have money, why doesn't the government print money and gives it to people?". He said that playing SimCity would have prevented his sister from asking such a naive question. I also would love so see the results of research about these games on kids. Maybe someday kids will play Sim City and AoE at elementary school or similar games designed for schools.

gowld 9y ago
It's not a naive question. She was on the verge of re-inventing Keynesian Economics, which ended the Great Depression. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/keynesianeconomics.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/k/keynesianeconomics.asp
- icelancer 9y ago
  >> Keynesian Economics, which ended the Great Depression This is a pretty bold claim and not one that should be stated as fact.
  - gonzo41 9y ago
    Keynesian Economics kept Australia out of recession in 08. They literally gave everyone 800 bucks. It was awesome, went out a bit more, bought lots of takeout and a few bits for around the house. And the economy kept moving. Now if only i could figure out a way to get more people to live in my SIM tower!
    - roel_v 9y ago
      Yeah, I'm sure that mining boom had nothing to do with it...
    - 9y ago

skookumchuck 9y ago

I'd be very careful about applying lessons from a game to the real world. Lots of games designed by economists, for example, tend to validate the pet theories of the economists, despite not working in the real world. Real world economics is infinitely more complex than the handful of rules in a game.

Retric 9y ago
I think the biggest difference is most games tend to have anything not dead + positive resource stream = a win. People tend to build city's / county's / etc that go through a major such phase to maximize resource collection. In reality you generally don't want to have 40 years of suck to get to some long term gain, because you need to live those 40 years.
- lione 9y ago
  You mean some sort of great leap forward produces negative results for your citizens until it's completed? I swear I heard a story similar to that in reality.
  - Retric 9y ago
    The thing is relative to most developing nations China has had very slow economic growth. Yes, with a massive population, but China ranks 110 by purchasing power per person. It's economy is terrible, the only thing it has going for it is scale. And it's not like it has a massive population density either ranking at #80 world wide.
    - hobbes78 9y ago
      http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ChinaGDP_2e.jpg http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
      - Retric 9y ago
        developing nations USA in 1980 was already a developed nation with a high relative standard of living. It could only grow GDP by inventing new technology and process not simply import proven tech. China's continued failures are massive and ongoing. Some numbers look ok relative to their past failures but that's about it.

pfarnsworth 9y ago

I play a lot of poker, and will risk hundreds of dollars on a single hand. All of my 401k is in money market mutual funds. I'm not sure that a straight up games-to-financial-decision type study would be useful, there are many different motivations between playing games or even gambling, and financial decisions.

prdonahue 9y ago
I hope by "money market mutual funds" you mean some general sort of passive-markets based investment approach (not actually holding 100% of your 401k in cash-like instruments)?
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  Money market mutual funds is a very well defined term.
pdpi 9y ago
I’d argue that, if you have a healthy relationship with skill-based gambling (i.e. poker, not roulette), you’re likelier to come out the other side with a clearer appreciation for risk and reward. Or, more bluntly: There’s nothing like being acutely aware how easily you can lose your stack on a bad gamble to make you invest your savings wisely. :)

tajen 9y ago

That’s why I never succeeded for long in Simcity 2000! I would buy the biggest items, because you know, you gotta invest, you gotta see big, so I’d buy the nuclear plant as soon as available because you know, availability makes businesses develop quicker. And I’d always fail because the slightest glitch (monster, earthquake, riot) would ruin the objectives! Aside from being influenced by government advertising (“This airport in a no-man’s land is going to develop the no-man’s land into a city!”), it also influenced my entrepreneur life: Why see small when you can invest all you have and get increasingly more return? Why spend time debugging when I could have this other big feature on the marketing material? And that’s why I never went past a few hours in Simcity, and why my cousin, a less entreprising person, would succeed more! Ha! What a cautionary tale.