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Uh, no? Maybe in 2013, but Bitcoin is used for substantially more than that today. It keeps people alive in Venezuela. A lot of African communities are finding

by Taek 9y ago

Uh, no? Maybe in 2013, but Bitcoin is used for substantially more than that today. It keeps people alive in Venezuela. A lot of African communities are finding it to be an excellent source of stability as well. My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Bitcoin is really the only option for us, because there's so much fraud (check, credit, etc.) that we couldn't accept another form of payment without something like 30% markup. The instant finality (well, 1-2 hour finality) of Bitcoin makes that tractable. Several startups that I know of have also gained a ton of traction and competitive edge by switching to bitcoin for payment rails. You won't know that they use Bitcoin based on their website or based on interacting with them, but when you send money to another country, they are on the back-end transferring bitcoin, and this allows them to shave days off of their process vs. competitors using other payment rails. Cryptocurrency services a very wide range of niches, because it offers several very substantial features that no other currency or payment option can offer. Beyond all the hype and sillyness, there is a technology that is actively changing the world and is gaining real traction every day.

atomical 9y ago
> Uh, no? Maybe in 2013, but Bitcoin is used for substantially more than that today. It keeps people alive in Venezuela. A lot of African communities are finding it to be an excellent source of stability as well. There have been a lot of puff pieces written about this. Very little actual proof in numbers. > My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Bitcoin is really the only option for us, because there's so much fraud (check, credit, etc.) that we couldn't accept another form of payment without something like 30% markup. The instant finality (well, 1-2 hour finality) of Bitcoin makes that tractable. Can you not take payments through Visa? I thought the standard was 2-3% for fees. > Several startups that I know of have also gained a ton of traction and competitive edge by switching to bitcoin for payment rails. You won't know that they use Bitcoin based on their website or based on interacting with them, but when you send money to another country, they are on the back-end transferring bitcoin, and this allows them to shave days off of their process vs. competitors using other payment rails. There aren't many companies taking Bitcoin. The book 50 foot blockchain by David Gerard has more on this. The gist though is that often a payment processor is encourages by Bitcoin maximalists to accept Bitcoin. Months later they realize no one is using it and remove it as a payment option. Then the Bitcoin maximalists pounce and harass them. > Cryptocurrency services a very wide range of niches, because it offers several very substantial features that no other currency or payment option can offer. Beyond all the hype and sillyness, there is a technology that is actively changing the world and is gaining real traction every day. In the niche of get rich quick it offers many features.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
  > Can you not take payments through Visa? Sounds like the problem is that fraud/chargebacks are more common, which Visa won't protect from. And for that matter, if you have too much fraud Visa might just dump you as too risky.
- Taek 9y ago
  You are responsible for the fraud yourself if you use Visa. They also just outright won't let us use them, we asked almost a dozen providers, including stripe, including paypal, including several other popular options that are generally cryptocurrency friendly. > There aren't many companies taking Bitcoin. The book 50 foot blockchain by David Gerard has more on this. The gist though is that often a payment processor is encourages by Bitcoin maximalists to accept Bitcoin. Months later they realize no one is using it and remove it as a payment option. Then the Bitcoin maximalists pounce and harass them. That's true for small time merchants like tshirt providers and restaurants. That's not true for more serious platforms like Circle, Abra, and a couple that facilitate large (6 figures or more) payments across borders. Those companies absolutely find value in the fast finality, in the low fees (a $10 transaction fee is less than 0.01% for a 6 figure USD transaction), and in the fact that there are bitcoin exchanges in almost every country in the world. Fiat payment rails provide other features, but for some use cases Bitcoin is by far the best option.
creato 9y ago
> My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Bitcoin is really the only option for us, because there's so much fraud (check, credit, etc.) that we couldn't accept another form of payment without something like 30% markup. The instant finality (well, 1-2 hour finality) of Bitcoin makes that tractable. Your disagreement with a post pointing out that criminal activity is a major driver of adoption of cryptocurrencies is "our cryptocurrency industry company can't accept any payment method other than Bitcoin due to rampant crime and fraud by cryptocurrency users"?
- Taek 9y ago
  This level of fraud is experienced by all sellers of expensive hardware. The high-end audio equipment industry has the same problem that we do - high fraud, and chargebacks can hit as much as 90 days later. If you already shipped a $4,000 pair of speakers across the world, that chargeback has no recourse, and just represents a giant hit on your balance sheet. It's a problem that Bitcoin readily solves.
UncleEntity 9y ago
> My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Just because they cited it in the article -- I'm sure the people who manufactured greenhouses during Tulip Mania* also made a ton of cash (and probably accepted tulips in payment, dunno?) by riding the bubble. *not that I think bitcoin is the same as tulips.
- Taek 9y ago
  The point was that we wouldn't be in business if we were stuck using traditional payment methods.

by Taek 9y ago

atomical 9y ago

> Uh, no? Maybe in 2013, but Bitcoin is used for substantially more than that today. It keeps people alive in Venezuela. A lot of African communities are finding it to be an excellent source of stability as well. There have been a lot of puff pieces written about this. Very little actual proof in numbers. > My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Bitcoin is really the only option for us, because there's so much fraud (check, credit, etc.) that we couldn't accept another form of payment without something like 30% markup. The instant finality (well, 1-2 hour finality) of Bitcoin makes that tractable. Can you not take payments through Visa? I thought the standard was 2-3% for fees. > Several startups that I know of have also gained a ton of traction and competitive edge by switching to bitcoin for payment rails. You won't know that they use Bitcoin based on their website or based on interacting with them, but when you send money to another country, they are on the back-end transferring bitcoin, and this allows them to shave days off of their process vs. competitors using other payment rails. There aren't many companies taking Bitcoin. The book 50 foot blockchain by David Gerard has more on this. The gist though is that often a payment processor is encourages by Bitcoin maximalists to accept Bitcoin. Months later they realize no one is using it and remove it as a payment option. Then the Bitcoin maximalists pounce and harass them. > Cryptocurrency services a very wide range of niches, because it offers several very substantial features that no other currency or payment option can offer. Beyond all the hype and sillyness, there is a technology that is actively changing the world and is gaining real traction every day. In the niche of get rich quick it offers many features.

yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
> Can you not take payments through Visa? Sounds like the problem is that fraud/chargebacks are more common, which Visa won't protect from. And for that matter, if you have too much fraud Visa might just dump you as too risky.
Taek 9y ago
You are responsible for the fraud yourself if you use Visa. They also just outright won't let us use them, we asked almost a dozen providers, including stripe, including paypal, including several other popular options that are generally cryptocurrency friendly. > There aren't many companies taking Bitcoin. The book 50 foot blockchain by David Gerard has more on this. The gist though is that often a payment processor is encourages by Bitcoin maximalists to accept Bitcoin. Months later they realize no one is using it and remove it as a payment option. Then the Bitcoin maximalists pounce and harass them. That's true for small time merchants like tshirt providers and restaurants. That's not true for more serious platforms like Circle, Abra, and a couple that facilitate large (6 figures or more) payments across borders. Those companies absolutely find value in the fast finality, in the low fees (a $10 transaction fee is less than 0.01% for a 6 figure USD transaction), and in the fact that there are bitcoin exchanges in almost every country in the world. Fiat payment rails provide other features, but for some use cases Bitcoin is by far the best option.

creato 9y ago

> My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Bitcoin is really the only option for us, because there's so much fraud (check, credit, etc.) that we couldn't accept another form of payment without something like 30% markup. The instant finality (well, 1-2 hour finality) of Bitcoin makes that tractable. Your disagreement with a post pointing out that criminal activity is a major driver of adoption of cryptocurrencies is "our cryptocurrency industry company can't accept any payment method other than Bitcoin due to rampant crime and fraud by cryptocurrency users"?

Taek 9y ago
This level of fraud is experienced by all sellers of expensive hardware. The high-end audio equipment industry has the same problem that we do - high fraud, and chargebacks can hit as much as 90 days later. If you already shipped a $4,000 pair of speakers across the world, that chargeback has no recourse, and just represents a giant hit on your balance sheet. It's a problem that Bitcoin readily solves.

UncleEntity 9y ago

> My company has done more than $10 million in hardware sales selling cryptocurrency miners for bitcoin. Just because they cited it in the article -- I'm sure the people who manufactured greenhouses during Tulip Mania* also made a ton of cash (and probably accepted tulips in payment, dunno?) by riding the bubble. *not that I think bitcoin is the same as tulips.

Taek 9y ago
The point was that we wouldn't be in business if we were stuck using traditional payment methods.