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Declarative system service configuration (i.e. init scripts or unit files in systemd language) are definitely an advantage. I was initial skeptical about their
by stephenr 9y ago
Declarative system service configuration (i.e. init scripts or unit files in systemd language) are definitely an advantage.
I was initial skeptical about their benefit - after all, an init script is just shell, it can be debugged literally with `sh -x`.
But that also means a) people write/ship fucking terrible init scripts, mostly because b) it's not necessarily simple to write an init script in pure shell.
The problem with systemd is the politics and the project's approach to the community (including their self-defined role/goals).
- dozzie 9y ago> I was initial skeptical about their benefit - after all, an init script is just shell, it can be debugged literally with `sh -x`. But note that unit files along with their PID 1 cannot be debugged now. Which is a big step backwards.
- stephenr 9y ago> But note that unit files along with their PID 1 cannot be debugged now. Which is a big step backwards. Sure, I'll concede that. But, due to their nature, there's also less need for ops/packager level users to debug unit files.
- JdeBP 9y ago* https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/429474/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/429474/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/428615/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/428615/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/428689/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/428689/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/428474/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/428474/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427836/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427836/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427806/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427806/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427712/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427712/ * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427710/ https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/427710/ That's just one WWW site, just the ones that I encountered (because I do not read them all), and just since the beginning of this month.
- JdeBP 9y agoOf course, this is based upon yet another repetition of the There are only van Smoorenburg init/rc and systemd. fallacy. * http://uselessd.darknedgy.net./ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ http://uselessd.darknedgy.net./ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ * http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by-side.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by-s...
- stephenr 9y agoI never claimed systemd is the only init that doesn't use shell scripts. I simply gave an example of how it's an improvement over e.g. sysvinit.
- JdeBP 9y agoClaiming it is not a necessary part of the fallacy. Basing one's argument on only those two is. The Uselessd Guy has some rather sharp comments, such as "you’ve been living under a rock for years", for that sort of thing. Even the Debian Hoo-Hah involved analysis of four systems. "The politics" that you critique include failures to look around and learn from (and indeed about) what already exists and has been done. Don't make the same mistake.
- stephenr 9y agoYou need to re-read what I actually wrote, and stop imposing your own predisposed ideas onto other people's commentary. One person asked about advantages of systemd. I listed one, and acknowledged systemd has issues. I didn't compare it to any specific init system. I didn't even claim that systemd is overall better or worse. I literally said: > Declarative system service configuration files are an advantage