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> It does the 20% of a full blown IDE's functions that provide 80% of the value. Does it support code refactoring (renaming variables, classes, moving classes

> It does the 20% of a full blown IDE's functions that provide 80% of the value. Does it support code refactoring (renaming variables, classes, moving classes or methods, ...)?

badsectoracula 9y ago
No, but if you think that is part of the 80% of the value you might want to rethink how you structure your code before writing it :-P.
- rowyourboat 9y ago
  You kid, but seriously: Of course you will have to restructure your code as the product evolves. Good refactoring support is not crucial for this, but makes your life easier, and I found that by making my life easier, it lowers the mental threshold for taking the plunge and restructuring that bit that does not quite fit anymore. Refactoring support is part of the 80% an IDE gives me over a good code editor. I would consider code navigation, autocompletion and integrated debugging to be the other crucial features of an IDE.
  - quickben 9y ago
    What do you usually do to have to refactor that much?
    - rowyourboat 9y ago
      All the time. I don't really understand how you don't. Requirements change constantly, and the software's structure has to change with them, or become a big ball of tangly interdependencies. Refactoring is not a big deal. If you keep your code clean, each individual refactoring is really quick - moving a method, renaming a trait to better fit its new role, ... If you can do these kind of things with a minimum of friction thanks to your IDE, you will do them, and you will not run into the situation where you have accumulated loads of technical debt and need two weeks to get everything into a maintainable state again.
      - badsectoracula 9y ago
        I'm not sure what to say beyond that i personally never felt the need for this. One of the IDEs i use does have several refactoring features, but the only one i ever used was the identifier rename and i probably used it around 2-3 times the last five years. It is a useful feature when you need it, but personally it wouldn't affect my choice of tools at all. After all i could just load an IDE that has it in the rare case i need it and then continue using the other tool i prefer, it isn't like modern computers can only run a single program at a time or anything :-P.

> It does the 20% of a full blown IDE's functions that provide 80% of the value. Does it support code refactoring (renaming variables, classes, moving classes or methods, ...)?

badsectoracula 9y ago

No, but if you think that is part of the 80% of the value you might want to rethink how you structure your code before writing it :-P.

rowyourboat 9y ago
You kid, but seriously: Of course you will have to restructure your code as the product evolves. Good refactoring support is not crucial for this, but makes your life easier, and I found that by making my life easier, it lowers the mental threshold for taking the plunge and restructuring that bit that does not quite fit anymore. Refactoring support is part of the 80% an IDE gives me over a good code editor. I would consider code navigation, autocompletion and integrated debugging to be the other crucial features of an IDE.
- quickben 9y ago
  What do you usually do to have to refactor that much?
  - rowyourboat 9y ago
    All the time. I don't really understand how you don't. Requirements change constantly, and the software's structure has to change with them, or become a big ball of tangly interdependencies. Refactoring is not a big deal. If you keep your code clean, each individual refactoring is really quick - moving a method, renaming a trait to better fit its new role, ... If you can do these kind of things with a minimum of friction thanks to your IDE, you will do them, and you will not run into the situation where you have accumulated loads of technical debt and need two weeks to get everything into a maintainable state again.
    - badsectoracula 9y ago
      I'm not sure what to say beyond that i personally never felt the need for this. One of the IDEs i use does have several refactoring features, but the only one i ever used was the identifier rename and i probably used it around 2-3 times the last five years. It is a useful feature when you need it, but personally it wouldn't affect my choice of tools at all. After all i could just load an IDE that has it in the rare case i need it and then continue using the other tool i prefer, it isn't like modern computers can only run a single program at a time or anything :-P.