7 ms·

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive tricks of depression, and can deal, kind of--I am utterly unable to deal with the physical listlessness and absence of drive that comes with it. Skipping sleep on a set schedule seems to work for me. At first I didn't think I could keep it up, and I was concerned by potential safety hazards. My concerns are justified, as I am pretty loopy by Friday afternoon, or around the 32 hour mark. Of all the esoteric treatments for my mood, this is perhaps the only real success except for Yoga (BKS-style Ashtanga). I have a feeling I might receive some benefit from ascetic practices in general; and will experiment with caloric restriction, e.g. in future months. I have no idea if I should expect the effects of this practice to remain pronounced, and my experience seems to differ somewhat from that described in the article. I sure hope I continue to benefit, because I don't respond well to any of the usual methodologies. Also, I don't feel comfortable enough in the onions to do a proper Ketamine trial. // I don't mean to sound breezy. I only include that last note to emphasize how unendurable my world was becoming. If this makes sense to you, I feel for you. One foot in front of the other... The downside: I am totally sober, but I know my executive function is not working very well, and I may very well regret commenting. edit: some glaring issues with words

pgt 9y ago
Wow! I awoke early this morning from a bit of a bender last night and have a similar feeling of mania (the positive, productive kind). At first I attributed it to a GABA rebound, but thinking back, a sleep fast has historically injected a sense of urgency and vigour. I have been fasting intermittently after reading Valter Longo's metabolic oxidation research (the term they used for aging research to get it published). I skip breakfast and try to leave 16-18 hours between meals. Have been losing weight but keeping muscle tone almost effortlessly. My skin has also improved. No negative effect so far. Good interview about I.F.: https://youtu.be/d6PyyatqJSE https://youtu.be/d6PyyatqJSE
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  I’ve irregular sleep patterns. Often sleep four hours or less, with a sleep binge every now and then. As long as I go to sleep when I feel tired and I can get past the post dinner stump I’m exceptionally energeting the afternoon and the whole evening, but a bit groggy in the morning. Fair trade since evening is time for me and family while morning is mostly work. The effect on metabolism/hunger seems crazy tho. When I get back to a regular sleep pattern I usually lose 3 to 6 kiloes just from that.
- fao_ 9y ago
  > My skin has also improved. This could be a symptom that you're eating food that is too rich or oily. As someone who's been involved with the care of many types of mammals, if a mammal starts developing spots then it is usually because of their diet, swapping out different food can have a huge effect with regards to this.
- gingerlime 9y ago
  I'm also skipping breakfast. Trying to keep at least 16 hours between dinner and lunch. Started nearly a year ago. Generally I feel better, and intend to continue, but: * Somehow I didn't lose much weight. I wasn't particularly overweight to begin with though. Maybe lost 1-2kg over this period(?) * My blood tests showed increase in cholesterol. I was reading about it and it seems common (or not very uncommon). It's still not too bad, but higher than before. Actually, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say or ask :) but mostly curious if there's something I'm doing wrong I suppose.
  - ashman5 9y ago
    I have had similar outcomes. I started the Intermediate Fasting in order to try to lower my cholesterol, but mine actually went up as well. Weight went down initially, but then stabalized at my normal, pre IF, weight.
  - fpoling 9y ago
    Depending on the food people can gain weight with IF. My impression is that with IF it is easier to follow diets to reduce weight, IF alone is somewhat orthogonal to weight management.
karussell 9y ago
Are you experimenting with this? E.g. doing a very short sleep of 20 minutes to reduce safety hazards or sleeping longer but only when it is dark and wake up before sunrise?
somecallitblues 9y ago
Have you ever tried something like magic mushrooms to perhaps rewire your brain? To remove that everyday filter for several hours and flood your brain with totally new experiences and a new way of looking at things. I think it's worth a shot but you'd have to do it in a controlled environment with people you like and who understand you.
- andai 9y ago
  I had a friend with psychotic depression and it was the only thing that made him functional again. Effects would last for a week or two.
  - stochastic_monk 9y ago
    I have a childhood friend who now has schizophrenia. He is afraid of medication, so he currently just stays on cannabis all the time in a state where it’s legal. (He has been medicated before, but his paranoia won’t let him now.) He’s more stable, and while he does still believe his hallucinations/delusions of persecution, he is able to handle them better. I wonder how psilocybin would treat him. I know psychosis is distinct from psychotic depression, but it seemed analogous.
    - ada1981 9y ago
      Checkout the book Rethinking Madness by Dr. Paris Williams, this book saved my life by helping me understand psychosis and schizophrenia.
    - andai 9y ago
      Have you seen him before and after smoking up? Anecdotally (my own eyes) cannabis does not improve schizophrenia. Interestingly, administering enough THC to a healthy adult will produce schizophrenia and psychosis type symptoms, while administering CBD to a psychotic person was found in one study to work as well as first-line antipsychotics (and with fewer side-effects). Unfortunately almost all modern cannabis hybrids have been optimized for THC, such that the natural balance between the psychotic and antipsychotic elements has been completely lost. There are a few "CBD only" strains but they are quite rare. It is possible to buy CBD oil however, made from non-psychoactive hemp. All things considered, CBD oil should be much more helpful to your friend than smoking, and less risky (both legally and psychologically). > The FDA of the United States considers hemp oil (and it's derivative CBD) to be a dietary supplement (not a medication), since they are made from industrial hemp plants. If you live in the US, this means you don't need a prescription and can legally purchase and consume Cannabidiol in any state. Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional but this subject is very close to my heart.
aavalle 9y ago
Hey... made a HN account just to reply you. Just wanted to say that what you wrote very much so resonated with me, or probably more so, me at a point in the past. If you ever feel like you just need to talk, please reach out. Sleep is actually always a good thing and once you get on a decent schedule there’s nothing better than a solid 8 hours. Personally, I always feel a lot more in touch with who I know I am, whether that’s the best version of myself or not, after consistent rest. Would love for you to someday find the same. 7742581567
- thegeomaster 9y ago
  Welcome! HN has no personal messages between users, and your email is not visible to others. If you want the parent commenter to contact you, you should leave your email either in your comment or in your profile bio.
- uhhyeahdude 9y ago
  Wow, that's really kind of you, and totally unexpected... Thank you. I may never need to call, but it means a great deal nonetheless.
sky_rw 9y ago
Semi-related: I do a once per week water fast on the same schedule (no food thursday, eat friday night) and I have similar mental-reset and body-reset type benefits. Maybe there is something to be said for just breaking yourself out of your rut and pushing yourself mentally on an unusual physical metric. Might trigger some evolutionary stress response that kickstarts our hunter/gatherer instincts.
- uhhyeahdude 9y ago
  You may be correct about these benefits being general side-effects of stress/deprivation. I'm trained to be wary of sexy and intuitive ideas, but I am charmed by anything with a halfway plausible evolutionary-biological basis. Even if it's bro-science.
  - dorfsmay 9y ago
    Fasting is scientifically studied. Google Jason Fung and Valter Lonngo.
    - uhhyeahdude 9y ago
      I'm sorry, I think I was unclear; I totally agree with you that the benefits of fasting are well documented and extensively studied. In addition to conveying possible mental benefit, the fasting is an attempt on my part to feel hunger again. I recognize that probably does not come off well, but I'm never hungry. It's been years. I don't eat all the time, I just eat when I feel like it. I remember times when I was actually hungry, and while life is easier now, I think it might be useful to go find that hunger again.
      - sky_rw 9y ago
        100%. This was the mind blowing realization the first time I fasted for a good 24+ hours. Feeling ACTUAL hunger, and realizing that what I normally associated as hunger was either thirst or restlessness.
- andrepd 9y ago
stagbeetle 9y ago
May I suggest polyphasic sleeping? I've been doing the dymaxion schedule (30 minutes every 6 hours) and my anhedonia is pretty much gone. What's in place, however, is pure euphoria. It may be difficult for some, because the personality differences are huge, but if you cannot keep up exerting tremendous effort into living, it could be a possible change. My only worries starting, was that I was too relaxed and calm. It almost felt like nothing affected me and my sense of fear was nonexistent. Whether this is closer to nirvana or insanity, I don't know, but it's been nice. And the overthinking and hyperawareness that came with a fresh 9 hours of sleep is gone.
- naasking 9y ago
  Sounds interesting, but it seems only those with a particular gene can properly adapt to it?
brazzledazzle 9y ago
I really enjoy that surreal aspect of sleep deprivation. Everything seems to be a bit different through that lens–almost, but not quite like a fresh perspective. Not quite because it feels like you had it all along. Maybe it’s just elucidation but that doesn’t feel apt either. I don’t know your writing style generally speaking but this comment feels slightly tinged with that surreal feeling (in a positive way). Of course the major downside is, as you mentioned, a decline in executive function. I find myself trying to filter things I say manually with mixed results. Rambling is definitely magnified.
- EGreg 9y ago
  I get more irritable when sleep deprived. Anyone else have the same thing? I don't think purposely incurring sleep debt is for me. Maybe others handle it better.
  - frankzinger 9y ago
    Yep, I have noticed this myself. I am much more likely to get into fights when sleep deprived. I have less patience with people.
  - xolox 9y ago
    This thread piqued my interest because I have a love/hate relationship with sleep deprivation that touches on what you mentioned: - On the positive side of the scale, sleep deprivation can boost my creativity and ability to focus enormously, every now and then (context: as a programmer). - On the negative side of the scale, I would be fooling myself if I pretended that this doesn't make me more irritable in the days after. Over the years I'm slowly but surely learning how to balance these things against each other and pick suitable moments for these creative outbursts without overdoing it :-).
simooooo 9y ago
Having been sleep deprived due to watching much overwatch league this week. I'm convinced that my productivity is garbage with any less than 7 hours a night
eezurr 9y ago
Hey there, I also made an account to share my experience and success (only a few weeks in) I've been struggling with depression all my life, which makes me less productive, which makes me more depressed ("stuck"). I've found my depression is highly correlated with productivity levels. Try this at your own risk: I've started taking Adderall twice a week (1/8th of a 30mg extended release), on Tuesdays and Fridays. That gives me 24 hours of significant productive output, followed by another 24 hours of above average productive output. On the "Off" days, I am significantly less depressed and my productivity is at a normal level (supplemented by morning coffee and occasionally 2 mg nicorette). I also take Magnesium Glycinate 400mg twice a day, and Zinc 30 Orotate once a day, which has slightly decreased my depression (stronger affect on anxiety). I would not advise taking Adderall more than that, as you risk increasing your tolerance (I have a friend who has ADHD and is finishing up their PhD in molecular biology who recommended this dosing frequency). EDIT: and its good to go back to being normal human. Adderall kind of makes you more robotic/logical. It's important to have a plan when you take take Adderall. Usually, whatever you are doing before you dose is what you will focus on for most of the day. If you don't have a plan, you could end up browsing the internet at 100K words per hour, or masturbating for long stretches.
lossolo 9y ago
Long term sleep deprivation is bad for your health/brain. When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain. There was a study some time ago that showed if you sleep less than 7 hours a day then proteins connected with Alzheimer disease accumulate in your brain.
- mercer 9y ago
  > When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain Is this generally accepted to be true these days?
  - aerotwelve 9y ago
    I'll leave a more rigorous answer to your question to a doctor, but there is evidence that Alzheimers disease is caused by a buildup of "plaques" (beta-amyloid, a toxic protein) in the brain tissue. This buildup is removed during R.E.M sleep in those without the disease. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sleep-clears-brain https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sle... I've heard claims about sleep triggering a general "cleansing" of the brain, but I'm not a neurologist, so I can't say for certain there's evidence for the general case.
    - mercer 9y ago
      Okay. I was aware of the theories, but from your earlier comment I got the impression that maybe it's now more than just a hypothesis. Either way, interesting links. Thanks!
b0rsuk 9y ago
I had major depression for a couple of years and here's how I eventually got out of it: 1) regular exercise. Start small, you're not supposed to break records. But it's very important to do it regularly. You can start with one exercise, like cycling or pushups, and then in later weeks or months add more once you feel you got the hang of it. Also, I think aerobic exercises on fresh air like cycling, jogging or even going for a walk work best. 2) Go for a walk pretty often. Just to see a changing landscape and not the same 4 walls all the time. 3) Friends. Meet them with some regularity. If you don't have, meet people over a hobby and you will eventually make some friends. Friendly faces are nice. 4) Music - especially new and nice - works VERY well for me, but then again I'm sensitive to music and some arts. 5) Herbal pills for depression - hypericum. Supposedly as good as many synthetic meds, but much fewer side effects. Note you want either pills, alcohol or oil extract. The substance that deals with depression and stress (hypericine?) is not water solluble. So common teas don't work. Watch out for photosensitivity (you might get burns or other skin problems from being exposed to sun). 6) Vitamin D, at least 2000IU a day. Try these things. It really helps, especially once you're used to some exercise. Now I still have anxiety and low stress resistance, but I can act and get stuff accomplished. Also, people say getting a cat or dog is a big help too (I haven't tried it). Anhedonia - lack of ability to feel pleasure - in my case comes largely from the habit of suppressing emotions. I'm working on it. Also, I practice meditation (for stress, memory and concentration), 1-2x a day for 15 minutes. I'm not sure how much it helps, but I'll take every help I can get NOT to fall into this black pit again.
- crooked-v 9y ago
  For the Vitamin D in particular, there's recentish news that suggests most people in general may be somewhat Vitamin D-deficient and that the recommended daily dose should be sharply raised.
  - milesvp 9y ago
    I will add a point if enec-data. I live in Seattle, and have sun avoidance tendencies. I take 2000iu if D3 daily in pill form. I find that my depressive type moods tend to be highly correlated to when I've forgotten to take my D3 for days or weeks at a time. Usually its because I've run out and forget to pick some up. I don't notice for a while, then a week or two later I realize I've been sinking into a funky mood and make a priority to pick more up. Usually I perk back up after a day ir two. The caveat being it's hard to tell if I'm already coming out of a funk and that's why I can run errands again like going to the store, or if just doing things 'to take care of myself' are triggering the upswing. But I still try not to run out of D3 especially in the winter. Also know that you can overdose on vitamin D, so it's best to take in the morning rather than night. The body naturally stops production as you reach certain levels so you're not likely to get too much, even if you spend all day in the sun.
vanderZwan 9y ago
> The downside: I am totally sober, but I know my executive function is not working very well, and I may very well regret commenting. As someone who is chronically sleep deprived this hits me hard. I had a few days of "full wakefulness" last year, where I had a good nights sleep for a few days in a row and my head was just clear. It felt so amazing to be "all here" and notice that your brain is firing all cylinders when thinking about problems.
- barryjoe 9y ago
  Since a few years ago my sleep routine stuck at 4-5 hours per night sleep. Some months ago I slept for 9 hours during 3 nights, and what a day... It was surreal as I felt to be imensably capable of thinking hard and focus.

pgt 9y ago

Wow! I awoke early this morning from a bit of a bender last night and have a similar feeling of mania (the positive, productive kind). At first I attributed it to a GABA rebound, but thinking back, a sleep fast has historically injected a sense of urgency and vigour. I have been fasting intermittently after reading Valter Longo's metabolic oxidation research (the term they used for aging research to get it published). I skip breakfast and try to leave 16-18 hours between meals. Have been losing weight but keeping muscle tone almost effortlessly. My skin has also improved. No negative effect so far. Good interview about I.F.: https://youtu.be/d6PyyatqJSE https://youtu.be/d6PyyatqJSE

LoSboccacc 9y ago
I’ve irregular sleep patterns. Often sleep four hours or less, with a sleep binge every now and then. As long as I go to sleep when I feel tired and I can get past the post dinner stump I’m exceptionally energeting the afternoon and the whole evening, but a bit groggy in the morning. Fair trade since evening is time for me and family while morning is mostly work. The effect on metabolism/hunger seems crazy tho. When I get back to a regular sleep pattern I usually lose 3 to 6 kiloes just from that.
fao_ 9y ago
> My skin has also improved. This could be a symptom that you're eating food that is too rich or oily. As someone who's been involved with the care of many types of mammals, if a mammal starts developing spots then it is usually because of their diet, swapping out different food can have a huge effect with regards to this.
gingerlime 9y ago
I'm also skipping breakfast. Trying to keep at least 16 hours between dinner and lunch. Started nearly a year ago. Generally I feel better, and intend to continue, but: * Somehow I didn't lose much weight. I wasn't particularly overweight to begin with though. Maybe lost 1-2kg over this period(?) * My blood tests showed increase in cholesterol. I was reading about it and it seems common (or not very uncommon). It's still not too bad, but higher than before. Actually, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say or ask :) but mostly curious if there's something I'm doing wrong I suppose.
- ashman5 9y ago
  I have had similar outcomes. I started the Intermediate Fasting in order to try to lower my cholesterol, but mine actually went up as well. Weight went down initially, but then stabalized at my normal, pre IF, weight.
- fpoling 9y ago
  Depending on the food people can gain weight with IF. My impression is that with IF it is easier to follow diets to reduce weight, IF alone is somewhat orthogonal to weight management.

karussell 9y ago

Are you experimenting with this? E.g. doing a very short sleep of 20 minutes to reduce safety hazards or sleeping longer but only when it is dark and wake up before sunrise?

somecallitblues 9y ago

Have you ever tried something like magic mushrooms to perhaps rewire your brain? To remove that everyday filter for several hours and flood your brain with totally new experiences and a new way of looking at things. I think it's worth a shot but you'd have to do it in a controlled environment with people you like and who understand you.

andai 9y ago
I had a friend with psychotic depression and it was the only thing that made him functional again. Effects would last for a week or two.
- stochastic_monk 9y ago
  I have a childhood friend who now has schizophrenia. He is afraid of medication, so he currently just stays on cannabis all the time in a state where it’s legal. (He has been medicated before, but his paranoia won’t let him now.) He’s more stable, and while he does still believe his hallucinations/delusions of persecution, he is able to handle them better. I wonder how psilocybin would treat him. I know psychosis is distinct from psychotic depression, but it seemed analogous.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    Checkout the book Rethinking Madness by Dr. Paris Williams, this book saved my life by helping me understand psychosis and schizophrenia.
  - andai 9y ago
    Have you seen him before and after smoking up? Anecdotally (my own eyes) cannabis does not improve schizophrenia. Interestingly, administering enough THC to a healthy adult will produce schizophrenia and psychosis type symptoms, while administering CBD to a psychotic person was found in one study to work as well as first-line antipsychotics (and with fewer side-effects). Unfortunately almost all modern cannabis hybrids have been optimized for THC, such that the natural balance between the psychotic and antipsychotic elements has been completely lost. There are a few "CBD only" strains but they are quite rare. It is possible to buy CBD oil however, made from non-psychoactive hemp. All things considered, CBD oil should be much more helpful to your friend than smoking, and less risky (both legally and psychologically). > The FDA of the United States considers hemp oil (and it's derivative CBD) to be a dietary supplement (not a medication), since they are made from industrial hemp plants. If you live in the US, this means you don't need a prescription and can legally purchase and consume Cannabidiol in any state. Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional but this subject is very close to my heart.

aavalle 9y ago

Hey... made a HN account just to reply you. Just wanted to say that what you wrote very much so resonated with me, or probably more so, me at a point in the past. If you ever feel like you just need to talk, please reach out. Sleep is actually always a good thing and once you get on a decent schedule there’s nothing better than a solid 8 hours. Personally, I always feel a lot more in touch with who I know I am, whether that’s the best version of myself or not, after consistent rest. Would love for you to someday find the same. 7742581567

thegeomaster 9y ago
Welcome! HN has no personal messages between users, and your email is not visible to others. If you want the parent commenter to contact you, you should leave your email either in your comment or in your profile bio.
uhhyeahdude 9y ago
Wow, that's really kind of you, and totally unexpected... Thank you. I may never need to call, but it means a great deal nonetheless.

sky_rw 9y ago

Semi-related: I do a once per week water fast on the same schedule (no food thursday, eat friday night) and I have similar mental-reset and body-reset type benefits. Maybe there is something to be said for just breaking yourself out of your rut and pushing yourself mentally on an unusual physical metric. Might trigger some evolutionary stress response that kickstarts our hunter/gatherer instincts.

uhhyeahdude 9y ago
You may be correct about these benefits being general side-effects of stress/deprivation. I'm trained to be wary of sexy and intuitive ideas, but I am charmed by anything with a halfway plausible evolutionary-biological basis. Even if it's bro-science.
- dorfsmay 9y ago
  Fasting is scientifically studied. Google Jason Fung and Valter Lonngo.
  - uhhyeahdude 9y ago
    I'm sorry, I think I was unclear; I totally agree with you that the benefits of fasting are well documented and extensively studied. In addition to conveying possible mental benefit, the fasting is an attempt on my part to feel hunger again. I recognize that probably does not come off well, but I'm never hungry. It's been years. I don't eat all the time, I just eat when I feel like it. I remember times when I was actually hungry, and while life is easier now, I think it might be useful to go find that hunger again.
    - sky_rw 9y ago
      100%. This was the mind blowing realization the first time I fasted for a good 24+ hours. Feeling ACTUAL hunger, and realizing that what I normally associated as hunger was either thirst or restlessness.
andrepd 9y ago

stagbeetle 9y ago

May I suggest polyphasic sleeping? I've been doing the dymaxion schedule (30 minutes every 6 hours) and my anhedonia is pretty much gone. What's in place, however, is pure euphoria. It may be difficult for some, because the personality differences are huge, but if you cannot keep up exerting tremendous effort into living, it could be a possible change. My only worries starting, was that I was too relaxed and calm. It almost felt like nothing affected me and my sense of fear was nonexistent. Whether this is closer to nirvana or insanity, I don't know, but it's been nice. And the overthinking and hyperawareness that came with a fresh 9 hours of sleep is gone.

naasking 9y ago
Sounds interesting, but it seems only those with a particular gene can properly adapt to it?

brazzledazzle 9y ago

I really enjoy that surreal aspect of sleep deprivation. Everything seems to be a bit different through that lens–almost, but not quite like a fresh perspective. Not quite because it feels like you had it all along. Maybe it’s just elucidation but that doesn’t feel apt either. I don’t know your writing style generally speaking but this comment feels slightly tinged with that surreal feeling (in a positive way). Of course the major downside is, as you mentioned, a decline in executive function. I find myself trying to filter things I say manually with mixed results. Rambling is definitely magnified.

EGreg 9y ago
I get more irritable when sleep deprived. Anyone else have the same thing? I don't think purposely incurring sleep debt is for me. Maybe others handle it better.
- frankzinger 9y ago
  Yep, I have noticed this myself. I am much more likely to get into fights when sleep deprived. I have less patience with people.
- xolox 9y ago
  This thread piqued my interest because I have a love/hate relationship with sleep deprivation that touches on what you mentioned: - On the positive side of the scale, sleep deprivation can boost my creativity and ability to focus enormously, every now and then (context: as a programmer). - On the negative side of the scale, I would be fooling myself if I pretended that this doesn't make me more irritable in the days after. Over the years I'm slowly but surely learning how to balance these things against each other and pick suitable moments for these creative outbursts without overdoing it :-).

simooooo 9y ago

Having been sleep deprived due to watching much overwatch league this week. I'm convinced that my productivity is garbage with any less than 7 hours a night

eezurr 9y ago

Hey there, I also made an account to share my experience and success (only a few weeks in) I've been struggling with depression all my life, which makes me less productive, which makes me more depressed ("stuck"). I've found my depression is highly correlated with productivity levels. Try this at your own risk: I've started taking Adderall twice a week (1/8th of a 30mg extended release), on Tuesdays and Fridays. That gives me 24 hours of significant productive output, followed by another 24 hours of above average productive output. On the "Off" days, I am significantly less depressed and my productivity is at a normal level (supplemented by morning coffee and occasionally 2 mg nicorette). I also take Magnesium Glycinate 400mg twice a day, and Zinc 30 Orotate once a day, which has slightly decreased my depression (stronger affect on anxiety). I would not advise taking Adderall more than that, as you risk increasing your tolerance (I have a friend who has ADHD and is finishing up their PhD in molecular biology who recommended this dosing frequency). EDIT: and its good to go back to being normal human. Adderall kind of makes you more robotic/logical. It's important to have a plan when you take take Adderall. Usually, whatever you are doing before you dose is what you will focus on for most of the day. If you don't have a plan, you could end up browsing the internet at 100K words per hour, or masturbating for long stretches.

lossolo 9y ago

Long term sleep deprivation is bad for your health/brain. When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain. There was a study some time ago that showed if you sleep less than 7 hours a day then proteins connected with Alzheimer disease accumulate in your brain.

mercer 9y ago
> When you sleep your organism is getting rid of the toxins from your brain Is this generally accepted to be true these days?
- aerotwelve 9y ago
  I'll leave a more rigorous answer to your question to a doctor, but there is evidence that Alzheimers disease is caused by a buildup of "plaques" (beta-amyloid, a toxic protein) in the brain tissue. This buildup is removed during R.E.M sleep in those without the disease. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sleep-clears-brain https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sle... I've heard claims about sleep triggering a general "cleansing" of the brain, but I'm not a neurologist, so I can't say for certain there's evidence for the general case.
  - mercer 9y ago
    Okay. I was aware of the theories, but from your earlier comment I got the impression that maybe it's now more than just a hypothesis. Either way, interesting links. Thanks!

b0rsuk 9y ago

I had major depression for a couple of years and here's how I eventually got out of it: 1) regular exercise. Start small, you're not supposed to break records. But it's very important to do it regularly. You can start with one exercise, like cycling or pushups, and then in later weeks or months add more once you feel you got the hang of it. Also, I think aerobic exercises on fresh air like cycling, jogging or even going for a walk work best. 2) Go for a walk pretty often. Just to see a changing landscape and not the same 4 walls all the time. 3) Friends. Meet them with some regularity. If you don't have, meet people over a hobby and you will eventually make some friends. Friendly faces are nice. 4) Music - especially new and nice - works VERY well for me, but then again I'm sensitive to music and some arts. 5) Herbal pills for depression - hypericum. Supposedly as good as many synthetic meds, but much fewer side effects. Note you want either pills, alcohol or oil extract. The substance that deals with depression and stress (hypericine?) is not water solluble. So common teas don't work. Watch out for photosensitivity (you might get burns or other skin problems from being exposed to sun). 6) Vitamin D, at least 2000IU a day. Try these things. It really helps, especially once you're used to some exercise. Now I still have anxiety and low stress resistance, but I can act and get stuff accomplished. Also, people say getting a cat or dog is a big help too (I haven't tried it). Anhedonia - lack of ability to feel pleasure - in my case comes largely from the habit of suppressing emotions. I'm working on it. Also, I practice meditation (for stress, memory and concentration), 1-2x a day for 15 minutes. I'm not sure how much it helps, but I'll take every help I can get NOT to fall into this black pit again.

crooked-v 9y ago
For the Vitamin D in particular, there's recentish news that suggests most people in general may be somewhat Vitamin D-deficient and that the recommended daily dose should be sharply raised.
- milesvp 9y ago
  I will add a point if enec-data. I live in Seattle, and have sun avoidance tendencies. I take 2000iu if D3 daily in pill form. I find that my depressive type moods tend to be highly correlated to when I've forgotten to take my D3 for days or weeks at a time. Usually its because I've run out and forget to pick some up. I don't notice for a while, then a week or two later I realize I've been sinking into a funky mood and make a priority to pick more up. Usually I perk back up after a day ir two. The caveat being it's hard to tell if I'm already coming out of a funk and that's why I can run errands again like going to the store, or if just doing things 'to take care of myself' are triggering the upswing. But I still try not to run out of D3 especially in the winter. Also know that you can overdose on vitamin D, so it's best to take in the morning rather than night. The body naturally stops production as you reach certain levels so you're not likely to get too much, even if you spend all day in the sun.

vanderZwan 9y ago

> The downside: I am totally sober, but I know my executive function is not working very well, and I may very well regret commenting. As someone who is chronically sleep deprived this hits me hard. I had a few days of "full wakefulness" last year, where I had a good nights sleep for a few days in a row and my head was just clear. It felt so amazing to be "all here" and notice that your brain is firing all cylinders when thinking about problems.

barryjoe 9y ago
Since a few years ago my sleep routine stuck at 4-5 hours per night sleep. Some months ago I slept for 9 hours during 3 nights, and what a day... It was surreal as I felt to be imensably capable of thinking hard and focus.