3 ms·

Bach is the 'ultimate composer' in the same sense that Pleistocene Ogg is the ultimate tool-maker, Robert Goddard the ultimate rocket-maker. Bach did many wond

Bach is the 'ultimate composer' in the same sense that Pleistocene Ogg is the ultimate tool-maker, Robert Goddard the ultimate rocket-maker. Bach did many wondrous things, added a lot to the vocabulary, staked a viable claim on a couple of mother lodes. But this sort of argument (though eternally engaged in) is futile. While classical is a favorite of many (including me), music has moved far, far onward.

archagon 9y ago
Onward, but not forward. Counterpoint is still depressingly underused in modern music (save for the occasional duet), and it can say so much with so little material. (Heck, the majority modern music barely even changes chords, let let alone key or anything beyond.) These tools are not antiquated; they are not buried in the sediment. They are still perfectly useful and there for our taking, if only we would dust them off.
- qiqitori 9y ago
  If by counterpoint you mean having melody on a different track (rather than just "beat" or added harmony) I'd say it's used way more than just in duets/canons. Most jazz (or accompaniment in general) would apply for example. https://youtu.be/GhCXAiNz9Jo?t=1m22s https://youtu.be/GhCXAiNz9Jo?t=1m22s Does this apply? (Franz Ferdinand - Take Me Out) I think counterpoint is used more than people think. Saying that we haven't moved "forward" from Bach is disingenuous, when Bach didn't even have straight 7th chords.
  - archagon 9y ago
    I'd say counterpoint requires the melodies to be on more-or-less equal footing, which doesn't really happen in this clip. (I'm sure it happens way more often in jazz, but I'm not an avid listener.) In any case, you definitely won't be hearing the kinds of crazy thematic transformations that Bach uses in his fugues. I didn't mean to imply that our music is unequivocally less advanced than Bach's — we've certainly acquired musical tools over the years that Bach would never have dreamed of! — but I also don't believe that his music should be viewed as a mere archeological layer in music history. It's still alive, it still resonates with modern audiences, and it still uses techniques that are rarely seen even today. We can still profit tremendously from it.
- 8bitsrule 9y ago
  I agree that counterpoint is great. However, I also recognize (and listen to) a lot of 'modern music' that doesn't have chords. Given the right sonorities, that doesn't bother me. Also, there are hundreds of alternatives to the 12-tone scale, many of which are wonderfully un-'chordinated'. De gustibus...

archagon 9y ago

Onward, but not forward. Counterpoint is still depressingly underused in modern music (save for the occasional duet), and it can say so much with so little material. (Heck, the majority modern music barely even changes chords, let let alone key or anything beyond.) These tools are not antiquated; they are not buried in the sediment. They are still perfectly useful and there for our taking, if only we would dust them off.

qiqitori 9y ago
If by counterpoint you mean having melody on a different track (rather than just "beat" or added harmony) I'd say it's used way more than just in duets/canons. Most jazz (or accompaniment in general) would apply for example. https://youtu.be/GhCXAiNz9Jo?t=1m22s https://youtu.be/GhCXAiNz9Jo?t=1m22s Does this apply? (Franz Ferdinand - Take Me Out) I think counterpoint is used more than people think. Saying that we haven't moved "forward" from Bach is disingenuous, when Bach didn't even have straight 7th chords.
- archagon 9y ago
  I'd say counterpoint requires the melodies to be on more-or-less equal footing, which doesn't really happen in this clip. (I'm sure it happens way more often in jazz, but I'm not an avid listener.) In any case, you definitely won't be hearing the kinds of crazy thematic transformations that Bach uses in his fugues. I didn't mean to imply that our music is unequivocally less advanced than Bach's — we've certainly acquired musical tools over the years that Bach would never have dreamed of! — but I also don't believe that his music should be viewed as a mere archeological layer in music history. It's still alive, it still resonates with modern audiences, and it still uses techniques that are rarely seen even today. We can still profit tremendously from it.
8bitsrule 9y ago
I agree that counterpoint is great. However, I also recognize (and listen to) a lot of 'modern music' that doesn't have chords. Given the right sonorities, that doesn't bother me. Also, there are hundreds of alternatives to the 12-tone scale, many of which are wonderfully un-'chordinated'. De gustibus...