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> Coming in to 2018, we see virtual and augmented reality devices transitioning from something just for hardcore gamers and enterprises into broad consumer adop

> Coming in to 2018, we see virtual and augmented reality devices transitioning from something just for hardcore gamers and enterprises into broad consumer adoption. Every time I see phrases like this I just cringe. As someone who spent a ton of time in the gamedev/3D UI space I've yet to see anything about VR that points to be being successful in anything other than small markets. I think there are some amazing applications in architecture and gaming but I really don't see something you have to strap to you face making the mainstream in a meaningful way. I really hope this doesn't dilute Servo's effort too much because they've been doing awesome stuff lately.

andybak 9y ago
Forget "useful" for a moment. How does good VR make you feel? Have you not had any "wow" moments? I'm constantly surprised how blown away people are when they try (real) VR for the first time. That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium.
- samastur 9y ago
  I was blown away by 3D movies too at first and now don't ever try to see one.
  - andybak 9y ago
    3D movies and TV = new way to view existing content VR = an entirely new medium. Just look at the number of arts projects that use VR. I hear about something new weekly. I don't recall artists around the world getting excited about 3D movies. (Yes - VR has some similarity with games and other interactive content but cinema has some similarity with theatre and the novel has some similarity with poetry)
    - samastur 9y ago
      That may well be true, but your original claim was that we should consider how amazing the experience seems and my point was that based on historical precedence this is not a particularly strong argument. I happen to think that VR will not disappear as it clearly already is useful for certain applications. It might even be widely-used by general public some day. I am reasonably sure that day will not be in next 3-5 years.
      - andybak 9y ago
        Maybe when I said "That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium." I should have said "That's one of the factors..." My brevity undermined my point which I regret. I do however find comparisons to 3D TV/movies glib and unenlightening.
        samastur 9y ago
        Glib? That's a lot to read into a comment why I don't trust my first impressions. I agree that VR is a different medium and that 3D movies probably aren't, but you lost me at why that should matter. I still don't understand that, but that's fine as I also lost interest when you made this personal. I will not respond to any further comments in this thread. Btw, I think we have common friends in Brighton. Your name occasionally came up when I used to work at Aptivate.
        andybak 9y ago
        > Btw, I think we have common friends in Brighton. Your name occasionally came up when I used to work at Aptivate. Hey! It's so odd when the virtual and real overlap. :-) I'll be seeing Alan this week hopefully.
- jaggederest 9y ago
  Blown away, followed by intense motion sickness, has been my general experience.
  - andybak 9y ago
    What did you try? There's been a lot of work done on what does and doesn't make people sick and most games or experiences aimed at the non-hardcore are pretty forgiving. (of course a badly set up machine can cause problems. If the frame rate tanks or the tracking is messed up then all bets are off)
- rqs 9y ago
  The problem I think, is how many people will actually pay that money to be "blown away" one time, and how many people will pay to be "blown away" multiple times after. We had few "VR experience center"s in our little city, they were popular when they just opened, but now most of it are closed. So, I think "blown away" is not enough, usefulness is important.
  - bsimpson 9y ago
    I remember playing a VR game at a mall kiosk in the 90s. I realize that the component miniaturization that came along with mobile phones has huge ramifications for the cost and quality of VR, but it's not like there haven't been people thinking about VR content for 25 years. Maybe the barrier to entry for VR hardware is low enough now that some small team will invent something that makes it a must-have, but I remain as skeptical now as I was when Oculus first hit the hype train. I haven't really used an Oculus or a Vive, so I hope this isn't coming from a place of abundant ignorance, but VR just feels like hype feeding hype. I haven't heard a VR concept that justifies it yet. The only one I even want to try is Tilt Brush.
    - andybak 9y ago
      > I haven't really used an Oculus or a Vive, so I hope this isn't coming from a place of abundant ignorance, There's only one way to find out. I'm over a year into VR ownership and it still fascinates me.
  - andybak 9y ago
    "usefulness" feels like a very limiting word. If (as I suspect) VR will become a new creative medium then it's an odd word to pick. Are movies and symphonies "useful"? I'd prefer to use words along the lines of "inspring", "enchanting", "compelling" if we're going to discuss the potential of VR. (I'm not belittling the large number of practical applications of VR in healthcare, training, education and content creation - but I don't think they will drive mainstream adoption in the way that creative, immersive applications could)
    - 9y ago
- wadkar 9y ago
  I tried the oculus rift at an FB event for the first time and I was not impressed. I didn’t feel like “wow” but more like “cool, this is nice”. Perhaps I had high expectations and maybe I need to try once more. I thought the VR experience could use more “clarity” (objects appeared grainy) and faster “reflectivity” (my mental model of objects moved faster than my perception).
nicoburns 9y ago
Agreed, although I think apple has it right in thinking that AR (i.e. overlaying digital information over the real world) is more compelling. Absolutely not something that mozilla should be focussing on though.

andybak 9y ago

Forget "useful" for a moment. How does good VR make you feel? Have you not had any "wow" moments? I'm constantly surprised how blown away people are when they try (real) VR for the first time. That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium.

samastur 9y ago
I was blown away by 3D movies too at first and now don't ever try to see one.
- andybak 9y ago
  3D movies and TV = new way to view existing content VR = an entirely new medium. Just look at the number of arts projects that use VR. I hear about something new weekly. I don't recall artists around the world getting excited about 3D movies. (Yes - VR has some similarity with games and other interactive content but cinema has some similarity with theatre and the novel has some similarity with poetry)
  - samastur 9y ago
    That may well be true, but your original claim was that we should consider how amazing the experience seems and my point was that based on historical precedence this is not a particularly strong argument. I happen to think that VR will not disappear as it clearly already is useful for certain applications. It might even be widely-used by general public some day. I am reasonably sure that day will not be in next 3-5 years.
    - andybak 9y ago
      Maybe when I said "That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium." I should have said "That's one of the factors..." My brevity undermined my point which I regret. I do however find comparisons to 3D TV/movies glib and unenlightening.
      - samastur 9y ago
        Glib? That's a lot to read into a comment why I don't trust my first impressions. I agree that VR is a different medium and that 3D movies probably aren't, but you lost me at why that should matter. I still don't understand that, but that's fine as I also lost interest when you made this personal. I will not respond to any further comments in this thread. Btw, I think we have common friends in Brighton. Your name occasionally came up when I used to work at Aptivate.
        andybak 9y ago
        > Btw, I think we have common friends in Brighton. Your name occasionally came up when I used to work at Aptivate. Hey! It's so odd when the virtual and real overlap. :-) I'll be seeing Alan this week hopefully.
jaggederest 9y ago
Blown away, followed by intense motion sickness, has been my general experience.
- andybak 9y ago
  What did you try? There's been a lot of work done on what does and doesn't make people sick and most games or experiences aimed at the non-hardcore are pretty forgiving. (of course a badly set up machine can cause problems. If the frame rate tanks or the tracking is messed up then all bets are off)
rqs 9y ago
The problem I think, is how many people will actually pay that money to be "blown away" one time, and how many people will pay to be "blown away" multiple times after. We had few "VR experience center"s in our little city, they were popular when they just opened, but now most of it are closed. So, I think "blown away" is not enough, usefulness is important.
- bsimpson 9y ago
  I remember playing a VR game at a mall kiosk in the 90s. I realize that the component miniaturization that came along with mobile phones has huge ramifications for the cost and quality of VR, but it's not like there haven't been people thinking about VR content for 25 years. Maybe the barrier to entry for VR hardware is low enough now that some small team will invent something that makes it a must-have, but I remain as skeptical now as I was when Oculus first hit the hype train. I haven't really used an Oculus or a Vive, so I hope this isn't coming from a place of abundant ignorance, but VR just feels like hype feeding hype. I haven't heard a VR concept that justifies it yet. The only one I even want to try is Tilt Brush.
  - andybak 9y ago
    > I haven't really used an Oculus or a Vive, so I hope this isn't coming from a place of abundant ignorance, There's only one way to find out. I'm over a year into VR ownership and it still fascinates me.
- andybak 9y ago
  "usefulness" feels like a very limiting word. If (as I suspect) VR will become a new creative medium then it's an odd word to pick. Are movies and symphonies "useful"? I'd prefer to use words along the lines of "inspring", "enchanting", "compelling" if we're going to discuss the potential of VR. (I'm not belittling the large number of practical applications of VR in healthcare, training, education and content creation - but I don't think they will drive mainstream adoption in the way that creative, immersive applications could)
  - 9y ago
wadkar 9y ago
I tried the oculus rift at an FB event for the first time and I was not impressed. I didn’t feel like “wow” but more like “cool, this is nice”. Perhaps I had high expectations and maybe I need to try once more. I thought the VR experience could use more “clarity” (objects appeared grainy) and faster “reflectivity” (my mental model of objects moved faster than my perception).

nicoburns 9y ago

Agreed, although I think apple has it right in thinking that AR (i.e. overlaying digital information over the real world) is more compelling. Absolutely not something that mozilla should be focussing on though.