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Genuine question: Are there non-toy-related uses for AR/VR that exist? Or is that typical assumption that the applications will emerge only once the technology

Genuine question: Are there non-toy-related uses for AR/VR that exist? Or is that typical assumption that the applications will emerge only once the technology exists?

aphextron 9y ago
>Genuine question: Are there non-toy-related uses for AR/VR that exist? No. It's why I've lost interest in VR/AR software development for now; the real work to be done is in hardware. Even the latest HMDs are too low resolution and bulky for any kind of productivity gain. AR will be amazing once the tech is there, but the current design paradigm of "smartphone-strapped-to-face" just isn't going to cut it.
deltron3030 9y ago
Take regular glasses, and just make them a bit smarter, without changing their appearance much. Could be useful for displaying interface menu elements (e.g. your browser tool bar), this way you'd gain screen size and/or have more direct access to more tools at the same time, without clicking through lists and stuff.
larsberg 9y ago
Certainly, it's early stages, which is why we (Mozilla Research / Emerging Technologies) are investing in it. We're seeing a lot of industrial use of AR in manufacturing and industrial settings, though consumer use is still less common. If you have't come across it, this HBR article is one of the best public materials: https://hbr.org/2017/11/a-managers-guide-to-augmented-reality https://hbr.org/2017/11/a-managers-guide-to-augmented-realit... VR is certainly still emerging as a platform and trying to get out of its hardcore gaming and training/corporate silos. We really believe from early user data and some more advanced markets (e.g., China) that standalone VR headsets and great cross-platform social experiences will help it reach more users. All that said: I don't personally know what the "instagram of VR" will be, though I certainly wish I did :-)
- wpietri 9y ago
  I get why people are excited, and maybe these technologies really will go somewhere this time. But the first commercial AR systems are 25 years old [1], and VR had a wave of popularity in the 90s as well . [2] The only way we can really call today the "early stages" of either of these technologies is by imagining a future where they dominate. But that's the very thing we should be questioning. I note that pretty much anything 3D has a long history of being heralded as the "early stages" of a revolution that never came. The most obvious example here is 3D video. We're at the tail end of a boom in 3D movies, a technology that now only gets applied to certain high-priced, effects-heavy blockbusters, and could well vanish. There was an even shorter 3D TV boom. [3] And of course there was the 50s boom in anaglyph (aka colored glasses) 3D. [4] But previous to that there was the ViewMaster, which was imagined to have all sorts of potential. In WW II, the US military bought 100,000 viewers because they thought the magic of 3D would be better for training soldiers. [5] And this history goes back to at least the Brewster Stereoscope, which sold 250,000 units in the 1850s, and was also expected to be revolutionary. [6] Given the many waves of hype in this era, I think we should be careful of thinking that we are on the path to some sort of destiny. Smart people have been fooled before. It's perfectly possible that this will be just another hype cycle whose main result is a bunch of dusty old hardware in the junk shops of 2050. [1] http://www.augmented-reality-games.com/history.php http://www.augmented-reality-games.com/history.php [2] https://killscreen.com/articles/failure-launch/ https://killscreen.com/articles/failure-launch/ [3] https://www.cnet.com/news/shambling-corpse-of-3d-tv-finally-falls-down-dead/ https://www.cnet.com/news/shambling-corpse-of-3d-tv-finally-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_film#The_%22golden_era%22_(1952%E2%80%931954) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_film#The_%22golden_era%22_(... [5] http://legendsrevealed.com/entertainment/2015/08/24/did-the-u-s-military-buy-millions-of-viewmaster-reels-during-world-war-ii/ http://legendsrevealed.com/entertainment/2015/08/24/did-the-... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscope#Brewster_stereoscope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscope#Brewster_stereosco...
  - larsberg 9y ago
    Yes, we're definitely familiar! We have people on the team who have been involved in the area since the first commercial AR systems, and a substantial portion of the team (including myself) lived through the previous era of VRML and VR hype. Eyes are definitely wide open!
RaleyField 9y ago
Military has had their HUD which is a form of it. I predict you could sell AR/VR only to niche consumers and military and it will remain a gimmick for consumers like 3D television was. So it's a great move for Mozilla if their thought was joining MIC..
gautamb0 9y ago
Broadly speaking, given a choice between getting on an airplane and traveling a few thousand miles versus strapping a headset on your face, there are plenty of scenarios where one can make a compelling case for doing the latter, even with today's hardware. Meetings, presentations, training, and more. The hardware is a big barrier currently, for sure; expensive and clunky. But that will change pretty quickly. The ability to showcase something without physically being there is very valuable. And yes, naturally, a lot more applications will emerge once the technology becomes easier to digest.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Training maybe. But humans are too much social animals for meetings (we already have setups with HD tvs, cameras, and high bandwidth connections and still fly to and from, almost as if being able to do so, or demand that they come to you, is a show of force and status) and presentations (never underestimate the value of the mingling that happens before, during and after a presentation) to happen remotely, unless we are talking some kind of sci-fi holographics.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ggg9990 9y ago
The current hardware is toy-quality, so most applications are toys. When the hardware gets to pro-quality, the applications are virtually infinite (imagine being able to create any possible experience for any person... having sex with their dead husband, commanding the battle of Thermopylae, Ender’s Game, playing basketball against Michael Jordan, visiting family thousands of miles away, visiting dead family thousands of miles away, business meetings, etc etc)
- phkahler 9y ago
  >> ...having sex with their dead husband... I know some people claim pornography has been a driver of technology, but necrophilia? really?
  - hawkice 9y ago
    HN is like an infinite pit into which all sarcasm falls, so just in case: pornography with live subjects isn't necrophilia just because the subjects have, since the time of recording, died. Surely the more normal version is the one GP was talking about.
roymurdock 9y ago
Check out PTC Thingworx Studio. Many industrial companies are pursuing similar technologies - AR to visualize data streaming off machines in a factory or industrial setting
- nartam11 9y ago
  Theres a free 90 trial for ThingWorx Studio! https://studio.thingworx.com/ https://studio.thingworx.com/ Disclaimer I work on the ThingWorx product
GraffitiTim 9y ago
At Fearless we’re using VR to help people overcome fears (spiders, flying, etc). http://FearlessVR.com http://FearlessVR.com
ericflo 9y ago
Someone lost 70lbs playing my VR game. I think fitness is a huge use case for this stuff.
- falcor84 9y ago
  What game? {{citation needed}}
  - ericflo 9y ago
    Soundboxing (https://twitter.com/jobjstauffer/status/904229973430591489?s=17 https://twitter.com/jobjstauffer/status/904229973430591489?s...)
staticassertion 9y ago
I really want to build a VR-based GUI for a Very Serious Program I'm writing in my free time. It's not a game. So whether there are or aren't, there's clearly potential. It doesn't seem right to dismiss it just because it hasn't taken off yet - it's extremely early days.
dbetteridge 9y ago
I dont know what you would consider non-toy uses, but the company I work for uses VR as a means of demonstrating building structures and layouts to clients. The model is built in Revit and using this method allows for easy fly/walkthrough and spotting of some issues that might not be as visible in the 3D viewer mode on your screen.
Sylos 9y ago
I've heard of a company very much looking to get AR going for CAD work. And well, it is coming sooner or later. If as a browser, you aren't ready when they actually do, you might see an entire industry standardizing away from you.
zem 9y ago
google glass has found a great application in heads-up displays for factory floors and other large industrial machinery. it's arguably a lot more exciting than anything they tried in the consumer space; it has the feel of a problem being solved thoroughly and well. https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/03/18/514299682/google-glass-didnt-disappear-you-can-find-it-on-the-factory-floor https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/03/18/51...
jononor 9y ago
Training of professional by using simulation. Already well established in military, aviation and shipping. I expect it to also do well in medical. As the tech becomes more commoditized it becomes viable for other businesses that don't spend as much on training.
jononor 9y ago
Sales and marketing. Especially showing previsualization of something that will be built to desicion maker. Like a house tailored to your specs, you can walk around inside it.
detaro 9y ago
AR is being investigated for a bunch of commercial use cases. Context-aware heads-up displays (or even simple phone-based AR for some things) could be useful in maintenance work etc in many industries.

Genuine question: Are there non-toy-related uses for AR/VR that exist? Or is that typical assumption that the applications will emerge only once the technology exists?

aphextron 9y ago

>Genuine question: Are there non-toy-related uses for AR/VR that exist? No. It's why I've lost interest in VR/AR software development for now; the real work to be done is in hardware. Even the latest HMDs are too low resolution and bulky for any kind of productivity gain. AR will be amazing once the tech is there, but the current design paradigm of "smartphone-strapped-to-face" just isn't going to cut it.

deltron3030 9y ago

Take regular glasses, and just make them a bit smarter, without changing their appearance much. Could be useful for displaying interface menu elements (e.g. your browser tool bar), this way you'd gain screen size and/or have more direct access to more tools at the same time, without clicking through lists and stuff.

larsberg 9y ago

Certainly, it's early stages, which is why we (Mozilla Research / Emerging Technologies) are investing in it. We're seeing a lot of industrial use of AR in manufacturing and industrial settings, though consumer use is still less common. If you have't come across it, this HBR article is one of the best public materials: https://hbr.org/2017/11/a-managers-guide-to-augmented-reality https://hbr.org/2017/11/a-managers-guide-to-augmented-realit... VR is certainly still emerging as a platform and trying to get out of its hardcore gaming and training/corporate silos. We really believe from early user data and some more advanced markets (e.g., China) that standalone VR headsets and great cross-platform social experiences will help it reach more users. All that said: I don't personally know what the "instagram of VR" will be, though I certainly wish I did :-)

wpietri 9y ago
I get why people are excited, and maybe these technologies really will go somewhere this time. But the first commercial AR systems are 25 years old [1], and VR had a wave of popularity in the 90s as well . [2] The only way we can really call today the "early stages" of either of these technologies is by imagining a future where they dominate. But that's the very thing we should be questioning. I note that pretty much anything 3D has a long history of being heralded as the "early stages" of a revolution that never came. The most obvious example here is 3D video. We're at the tail end of a boom in 3D movies, a technology that now only gets applied to certain high-priced, effects-heavy blockbusters, and could well vanish. There was an even shorter 3D TV boom. [3] And of course there was the 50s boom in anaglyph (aka colored glasses) 3D. [4] But previous to that there was the ViewMaster, which was imagined to have all sorts of potential. In WW II, the US military bought 100,000 viewers because they thought the magic of 3D would be better for training soldiers. [5] And this history goes back to at least the Brewster Stereoscope, which sold 250,000 units in the 1850s, and was also expected to be revolutionary. [6] Given the many waves of hype in this era, I think we should be careful of thinking that we are on the path to some sort of destiny. Smart people have been fooled before. It's perfectly possible that this will be just another hype cycle whose main result is a bunch of dusty old hardware in the junk shops of 2050. [1] http://www.augmented-reality-games.com/history.php http://www.augmented-reality-games.com/history.php [2] https://killscreen.com/articles/failure-launch/ https://killscreen.com/articles/failure-launch/ [3] https://www.cnet.com/news/shambling-corpse-of-3d-tv-finally-falls-down-dead/ https://www.cnet.com/news/shambling-corpse-of-3d-tv-finally-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_film#The_%22golden_era%22_(1952%E2%80%931954) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_film#The_%22golden_era%22_(... [5] http://legendsrevealed.com/entertainment/2015/08/24/did-the-u-s-military-buy-millions-of-viewmaster-reels-during-world-war-ii/ http://legendsrevealed.com/entertainment/2015/08/24/did-the-... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscope#Brewster_stereoscope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscope#Brewster_stereosco...
- larsberg 9y ago
  Yes, we're definitely familiar! We have people on the team who have been involved in the area since the first commercial AR systems, and a substantial portion of the team (including myself) lived through the previous era of VRML and VR hype. Eyes are definitely wide open!

RaleyField 9y ago

Military has had their HUD which is a form of it. I predict you could sell AR/VR only to niche consumers and military and it will remain a gimmick for consumers like 3D television was. So it's a great move for Mozilla if their thought was joining MIC..

gautamb0 9y ago

Broadly speaking, given a choice between getting on an airplane and traveling a few thousand miles versus strapping a headset on your face, there are plenty of scenarios where one can make a compelling case for doing the latter, even with today's hardware. Meetings, presentations, training, and more. The hardware is a big barrier currently, for sure; expensive and clunky. But that will change pretty quickly. The ability to showcase something without physically being there is very valuable. And yes, naturally, a lot more applications will emerge once the technology becomes easier to digest.

digi_owl 9y ago
Training maybe. But humans are too much social animals for meetings (we already have setups with HD tvs, cameras, and high bandwidth connections and still fly to and from, almost as if being able to do so, or demand that they come to you, is a show of force and status) and presentations (never underestimate the value of the mingling that happens before, during and after a presentation) to happen remotely, unless we are talking some kind of sci-fi holographics.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ggg9990 9y ago

The current hardware is toy-quality, so most applications are toys. When the hardware gets to pro-quality, the applications are virtually infinite (imagine being able to create any possible experience for any person... having sex with their dead husband, commanding the battle of Thermopylae, Ender’s Game, playing basketball against Michael Jordan, visiting family thousands of miles away, visiting dead family thousands of miles away, business meetings, etc etc)

phkahler 9y ago
>> ...having sex with their dead husband... I know some people claim pornography has been a driver of technology, but necrophilia? really?
- hawkice 9y ago
  HN is like an infinite pit into which all sarcasm falls, so just in case: pornography with live subjects isn't necrophilia just because the subjects have, since the time of recording, died. Surely the more normal version is the one GP was talking about.

roymurdock 9y ago

Check out PTC Thingworx Studio. Many industrial companies are pursuing similar technologies - AR to visualize data streaming off machines in a factory or industrial setting

nartam11 9y ago
Theres a free 90 trial for ThingWorx Studio! https://studio.thingworx.com/ https://studio.thingworx.com/ Disclaimer I work on the ThingWorx product

GraffitiTim 9y ago

At Fearless we’re using VR to help people overcome fears (spiders, flying, etc). http://FearlessVR.com http://FearlessVR.com

ericflo 9y ago

Someone lost 70lbs playing my VR game. I think fitness is a huge use case for this stuff.

falcor84 9y ago
What game? {{citation needed}}
- ericflo 9y ago
  Soundboxing (https://twitter.com/jobjstauffer/status/904229973430591489?s=17 https://twitter.com/jobjstauffer/status/904229973430591489?s...)

staticassertion 9y ago

I really want to build a VR-based GUI for a Very Serious Program I'm writing in my free time. It's not a game. So whether there are or aren't, there's clearly potential. It doesn't seem right to dismiss it just because it hasn't taken off yet - it's extremely early days.

dbetteridge 9y ago

I dont know what you would consider non-toy uses, but the company I work for uses VR as a means of demonstrating building structures and layouts to clients. The model is built in Revit and using this method allows for easy fly/walkthrough and spotting of some issues that might not be as visible in the 3D viewer mode on your screen.

Sylos 9y ago

I've heard of a company very much looking to get AR going for CAD work. And well, it is coming sooner or later. If as a browser, you aren't ready when they actually do, you might see an entire industry standardizing away from you.

zem 9y ago

google glass has found a great application in heads-up displays for factory floors and other large industrial machinery. it's arguably a lot more exciting than anything they tried in the consumer space; it has the feel of a problem being solved thoroughly and well. https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/03/18/514299682/google-glass-didnt-disappear-you-can-find-it-on-the-factory-floor https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/03/18/51...

jononor 9y ago

Training of professional by using simulation. Already well established in military, aviation and shipping. I expect it to also do well in medical. As the tech becomes more commoditized it becomes viable for other businesses that don't spend as much on training.

jononor 9y ago

Sales and marketing. Especially showing previsualization of something that will be built to desicion maker. Like a house tailored to your specs, you can walk around inside it.

detaro 9y ago

AR is being investigated for a bunch of commercial use cases. Context-aware heads-up displays (or even simple phone-based AR for some things) could be useful in maintenance work etc in many industries.