5 ms·

I've come to appreciate job listings that include the actual team/project that I'd be working on. If a company of more than 10 people can't tell me what they ac

by spyspy 9y ago

I've come to appreciate job listings that include the actual team/project that I'd be working on. If a company of more than 10 people can't tell me what they actually need me for it strikes me as a company that's wildly disorganized and/or with a lot of employee turnover. "We don't hire for specific roles, we just hire good engineers" (read: your job is whatever we say it is any given moment).

priyadarshy 9y ago
I agree, it's important to be able to visualize something tangible you might work on or build. When it comes time to the interview you also have a real context to talk about things in like why you'd choose X technology, or why you'd implement Y in some particular way.
souprock 9y ago
It can be project turnover. Take mine for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16283252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16283252 It has that attribute you are complaining about, but without the problems you presume. Suppose we hired you. Perhaps a couple months pass between when the job ad is posted and when you physically show up for your first day of work. We aren't going to put projects on hold while waiting for you; we'll assign those to other people. Once you show up, we'll get you started on a project. That project assignment won't last forever. We may decide that you are more valuable elsewhere, perhaps after you get a security clearance. (another reason we can't say much, along with plain ordinary proprietary information) Projects tend to last a year or two. It's not as if we have no idea. We can say in general terms what kind of stuff you could work on. Telling you about a project that might be done before you start your first day of work would make no sense at all. I wouldn't call it wildly disorganized, but the details are not perfectly predictable. There are people managing a pipeline of upcoming projects. They propose things to customers, get feedback, place bids to do the work, get contracts, set things up for doing the work, and then match up employees with projects.
- scarface74 9y ago
  I wish more employees would have the kind of job posting you have in your link. It would tell me I wouldn't want to go anywhere near the company. Pick Florida or Texas to live in a place with solid gun rights and no state income tax. Why do I care about gun rights when I'm applying for a job. That implies a culture that is always bringing politics into the job -something I avoid like the plague. We proudly fly the American flag. One in our cafeteria looks to be about 8x15 feet. Our veterans hold an annual Flag Folding Ceremony in honor of Veteran's Day. I respect veterans (my father is one) but along with the gun rights statement it still feels like bringing non work related stuff into the job. I just want to do my job and go home. Many employees choose to go shooting together, but there is no pressure to participate. It's just a normal all-American activity. Another red flag.... When someone asked about salary range, the response was We are hiring at multiple levels and in multiple locations, so it's a big range. You don't want an upper bound on it, do you? That would be limiting. :-) Another red flag....
  - souprock 9y ago
    I agree on that first point. The goal is not to attract the maximum number of job seekers. Driving away people who would be unhappy is good. I suspect that "always bringing politics into the job" and "bringing non work related stuff into the job" are not the real cause of your dislike. Can you confirm that you would reject both Google and Facebook due to being excessively political? We're far less political at work than they are. We didn't fire our Bernie supporter. There are no red flags. We exclusively fly the American flag. I keep seeing that people suspect a lack of a salary range indicates nefarious intent, but it's not like that. User rb808 had it right in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16555622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16555622 when he commented that "if you put a typical range you wont get the best people. If you put a high number out you get every nutter in town applying." I did drop a few hints which you ignored, but the salary range spans more than 6 dB. Everybody seems to underestimate us, and glassdoor's obsolete data doesn't help, but that isn't totally a bad thing. I have no interest in wasting time on people who just spam all the job ads that offer large salaries. I get enough spammy stuff as it is... no, web development experience isn't going to cut it. The value that you provide to one company is not the same as the value that you provide to another company. Consider two companies and two developers. One developer does C++11 and one company wants that. One developer does C# and one company wants that. Applying to the matching companies, perhaps both people are offered $200,000. Applying to the non-matching companies, perhaps both people are offered $100,000. There is no reason to be offended or assume nefarious intent when you get a low offer during a career change. Heart surgeons and stock traders may both get paid well, but a heart surgeon who switches his career to stock trading should not expect prior experience and pay to be at all related to value in the new career.

by spyspy 9y ago

priyadarshy 9y ago

I agree, it's important to be able to visualize something tangible you might work on or build. When it comes time to the interview you also have a real context to talk about things in like why you'd choose X technology, or why you'd implement Y in some particular way.

souprock 9y ago

It can be project turnover. Take mine for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16283252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16283252 It has that attribute you are complaining about, but without the problems you presume. Suppose we hired you. Perhaps a couple months pass between when the job ad is posted and when you physically show up for your first day of work. We aren't going to put projects on hold while waiting for you; we'll assign those to other people. Once you show up, we'll get you started on a project. That project assignment won't last forever. We may decide that you are more valuable elsewhere, perhaps after you get a security clearance. (another reason we can't say much, along with plain ordinary proprietary information) Projects tend to last a year or two. It's not as if we have no idea. We can say in general terms what kind of stuff you could work on. Telling you about a project that might be done before you start your first day of work would make no sense at all. I wouldn't call it wildly disorganized, but the details are not perfectly predictable. There are people managing a pipeline of upcoming projects. They propose things to customers, get feedback, place bids to do the work, get contracts, set things up for doing the work, and then match up employees with projects.

scarface74 9y ago
I wish more employees would have the kind of job posting you have in your link. It would tell me I wouldn't want to go anywhere near the company. Pick Florida or Texas to live in a place with solid gun rights and no state income tax. Why do I care about gun rights when I'm applying for a job. That implies a culture that is always bringing politics into the job -something I avoid like the plague. We proudly fly the American flag. One in our cafeteria looks to be about 8x15 feet. Our veterans hold an annual Flag Folding Ceremony in honor of Veteran's Day. I respect veterans (my father is one) but along with the gun rights statement it still feels like bringing non work related stuff into the job. I just want to do my job and go home. Many employees choose to go shooting together, but there is no pressure to participate. It's just a normal all-American activity. Another red flag.... When someone asked about salary range, the response was We are hiring at multiple levels and in multiple locations, so it's a big range. You don't want an upper bound on it, do you? That would be limiting. :-) Another red flag....
- souprock 9y ago
  I agree on that first point. The goal is not to attract the maximum number of job seekers. Driving away people who would be unhappy is good. I suspect that "always bringing politics into the job" and "bringing non work related stuff into the job" are not the real cause of your dislike. Can you confirm that you would reject both Google and Facebook due to being excessively political? We're far less political at work than they are. We didn't fire our Bernie supporter. There are no red flags. We exclusively fly the American flag. I keep seeing that people suspect a lack of a salary range indicates nefarious intent, but it's not like that. User rb808 had it right in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16555622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16555622 when he commented that "if you put a typical range you wont get the best people. If you put a high number out you get every nutter in town applying." I did drop a few hints which you ignored, but the salary range spans more than 6 dB. Everybody seems to underestimate us, and glassdoor's obsolete data doesn't help, but that isn't totally a bad thing. I have no interest in wasting time on people who just spam all the job ads that offer large salaries. I get enough spammy stuff as it is... no, web development experience isn't going to cut it. The value that you provide to one company is not the same as the value that you provide to another company. Consider two companies and two developers. One developer does C++11 and one company wants that. One developer does C# and one company wants that. Applying to the matching companies, perhaps both people are offered $200,000. Applying to the non-matching companies, perhaps both people are offered $100,000. There is no reason to be offended or assume nefarious intent when you get a low offer during a career change. Heart surgeons and stock traders may both get paid well, but a heart surgeon who switches his career to stock trading should not expect prior experience and pay to be at all related to value in the new career.