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Yev from Backblaze -> We don't currently have a seeding open for Backblaze Online Backup (we do for B2, it's called Fireball, but is quite expensive for just th

by atYevP 9y ago

Yev from Backblaze -> We don't currently have a seeding open for Backblaze Online Backup (we do for B2, it's called Fireball, but is quite expensive for just that little bit of data). If you think you can actually upload all 4TBs in one month (might be able to w/ Maximum Throttle + some threading), we've had some of our users contact their ISP and received a "pardon" for a month. Not saying that's the norm, but some folks did manage to get their data caps lifted for a short time!

gmemstr 9y ago
I'm assuming the reason for not having seeding open is because you never know what's on the drive? Or is there some other technical reason?
- atYevP 9y ago
  Interesting question -> We just simply didn't build in that functionality. Right now the only way to get data in to Backblaze Online Backup is to have that data come from the client which resides on the machine. For Backblaze B2, we knew that organizations would have much larger data-sets, so we designed it with that functionality in mind. Also, at the beginning the "no seeding" thing was kind of a gate to folks who had a lot of data but limited bandwidth. Our theory was that you should never be afraid of uploading your data, you should have the bandwidth to match. That was bout 10 years ago though, so things have changed - but it's still not a priority project for us - especially considering that since Online Backup is a flat-fee, by definition almost anyone that would use the "seeding" feature would not be a break-even customer for us.
  - AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
    Hi Yev, This would be my sales pitch to your superiors: 1) My 4TB is not really expected to grow much beyond this point. It's the accumulation of a lifetime of hoarding, and the year-to-year addition beyond that will be in gigs, not TBs. So after the first year, it's basically just cold storage. If you guys can profitably store 4TB in cold storage for $50/yr, it should be profitable after the first year. 2) The guys who have enough media and are technical enough to want to seed it are also more than likely going to be the guys who make the backup service recommendations for their friends and families. Case in point: http://nothingofvalue.org/backup.html http://nothingofvalue.org/backup.html That's the website I created for friends, family, and coworkers to read, because I got tired of explaining the same stuff to them every Christmas. I very nearly bought the Crashplan Family plan at one point just to make it easier for them--I'm not glad I didn't. But I guess my point here is that the power-users, as irritating as we are, are going to be the ones who spread your product by word of mouth. 3) People with lots of data who take backing up seriously generally don't like switching vendors unless we have no other choice. I don't want a provider that I feel like I'll "outgrow" when I get too much data and be forced to switch to a more expensive plan or to another vendor. So while a user with 100 GB or less might be with you guys for a year, he will probably move to another vendor if they can do it cheaper, since he doesn't have much data. The hoarders, on the other hand, just want to know you'll keep their stuff safe and won't jack up the price on them at some point, and will otherwise be willing to stick with you forever. Just my $0.02 as a potential customer.
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
Hello, Yev, Thanks for your reply. I can certainly investigate that route, but the kinds of ISPs that implement these caps aren't exactly known for their magnanimity to begin with, so I'm not optimistic. Assuming they don't, I would get charged about $10 / 50GB overage, which would work out to 3000 / 50 = $60, which is the yearly cost of your service. So my dilemma is that I'm either paying for about half a year before I get a complete backup set with BB, or I'm effectively paying double the service price just to make sure the data all gets to you guys in a timely manner. For that price, I could just as well just shell out the extra dough to stay with an upgraded Crashplan Small Business account. I hope you guys will reconsider or re-examine your position on seeded backups. I don't think I am being unreasonable in wanting that to be an option, nor do I think I'm alone in having somewhere north of a terabyte of media--any amateur photographer or video editor probably has a similarly-sized dataset. If unlimited bandwidth were available, this wouldn't be a concern, but, I don't have the luxury of being able to choose a different ISP. And with Chairman Verizon heading the FCC, I don't see that changing any time soon.
- atYevP 9y ago
  Definitely understand that mind-set. We review most of our decisions every year, but it's a tricky problem. Since Backblaze Online Backup is a flat-fee service, by definition most folks who have that much data would not be break-even customers for us, and adding in services that encourage those large customers wouldn't be a great long-term plan. That said, one thing you might be able to do is see how much more expensive an "unlimited" plan with your ISP would be for 1 month (hopefully less than the $60 extra). CrashPlan Small Business is a good service as well, so if you're happy with them and don't mind paying the extra few dollars a month, staying with them, from a bandwidth perspective isn't the worst. And yea, I'm personally hoping that the ISP situation gets a bit more friendly towards consumers!
- biggc 9y ago
  > $10 / 50GB overage, which would work out to 3000 / 50 = $60 You forgot to multiply by $10, so you're actually looking at $600 for 3 TB of overage
  - 9y ago

by atYevP 9y ago

gmemstr 9y ago

I'm assuming the reason for not having seeding open is because you never know what's on the drive? Or is there some other technical reason?

atYevP 9y ago
Interesting question -> We just simply didn't build in that functionality. Right now the only way to get data in to Backblaze Online Backup is to have that data come from the client which resides on the machine. For Backblaze B2, we knew that organizations would have much larger data-sets, so we designed it with that functionality in mind. Also, at the beginning the "no seeding" thing was kind of a gate to folks who had a lot of data but limited bandwidth. Our theory was that you should never be afraid of uploading your data, you should have the bandwidth to match. That was bout 10 years ago though, so things have changed - but it's still not a priority project for us - especially considering that since Online Backup is a flat-fee, by definition almost anyone that would use the "seeding" feature would not be a break-even customer for us.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
  Hi Yev, This would be my sales pitch to your superiors: 1) My 4TB is not really expected to grow much beyond this point. It's the accumulation of a lifetime of hoarding, and the year-to-year addition beyond that will be in gigs, not TBs. So after the first year, it's basically just cold storage. If you guys can profitably store 4TB in cold storage for $50/yr, it should be profitable after the first year. 2) The guys who have enough media and are technical enough to want to seed it are also more than likely going to be the guys who make the backup service recommendations for their friends and families. Case in point: http://nothingofvalue.org/backup.html http://nothingofvalue.org/backup.html That's the website I created for friends, family, and coworkers to read, because I got tired of explaining the same stuff to them every Christmas. I very nearly bought the Crashplan Family plan at one point just to make it easier for them--I'm not glad I didn't. But I guess my point here is that the power-users, as irritating as we are, are going to be the ones who spread your product by word of mouth. 3) People with lots of data who take backing up seriously generally don't like switching vendors unless we have no other choice. I don't want a provider that I feel like I'll "outgrow" when I get too much data and be forced to switch to a more expensive plan or to another vendor. So while a user with 100 GB or less might be with you guys for a year, he will probably move to another vendor if they can do it cheaper, since he doesn't have much data. The hoarders, on the other hand, just want to know you'll keep their stuff safe and won't jack up the price on them at some point, and will otherwise be willing to stick with you forever. Just my $0.02 as a potential customer.

AdmiralAsshat 9y ago

Hello, Yev, Thanks for your reply. I can certainly investigate that route, but the kinds of ISPs that implement these caps aren't exactly known for their magnanimity to begin with, so I'm not optimistic. Assuming they don't, I would get charged about $10 / 50GB overage, which would work out to 3000 / 50 = $60, which is the yearly cost of your service. So my dilemma is that I'm either paying for about half a year before I get a complete backup set with BB, or I'm effectively paying double the service price just to make sure the data all gets to you guys in a timely manner. For that price, I could just as well just shell out the extra dough to stay with an upgraded Crashplan Small Business account. I hope you guys will reconsider or re-examine your position on seeded backups. I don't think I am being unreasonable in wanting that to be an option, nor do I think I'm alone in having somewhere north of a terabyte of media--any amateur photographer or video editor probably has a similarly-sized dataset. If unlimited bandwidth were available, this wouldn't be a concern, but, I don't have the luxury of being able to choose a different ISP. And with Chairman Verizon heading the FCC, I don't see that changing any time soon.

atYevP 9y ago
Definitely understand that mind-set. We review most of our decisions every year, but it's a tricky problem. Since Backblaze Online Backup is a flat-fee service, by definition most folks who have that much data would not be break-even customers for us, and adding in services that encourage those large customers wouldn't be a great long-term plan. That said, one thing you might be able to do is see how much more expensive an "unlimited" plan with your ISP would be for 1 month (hopefully less than the $60 extra). CrashPlan Small Business is a good service as well, so if you're happy with them and don't mind paying the extra few dollars a month, staying with them, from a bandwidth perspective isn't the worst. And yea, I'm personally hoping that the ISP situation gets a bit more friendly towards consumers!
biggc 9y ago
> $10 / 50GB overage, which would work out to 3000 / 50 = $60 You forgot to multiply by $10, so you're actually looking at $600 for 3 TB of overage
- 9y ago