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EU police have led several large-scale onionland raids focusing on child trafficking in the last few years, and more recently have been making simultaneous inte

EU police have led several large-scale onionland raids focusing on child trafficking in the last few years, and more recently have been making simultaneous international arrests of producers and distributors. The problem is the same with the drug war unfortunately, these sites are basically a hydra.

Para2016 9y ago
That would be cool to read a take down story about that instead of drugs. That makes me curious though, it sounds like in the drug takedown the users are largely spared but the dealers are targeted. Is it the same for child porn/trafficking? I would prefer they go after everyone in those rings..
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- SolarNet 9y ago
  I think a lot of more progressive(?) places let drug users off because it's more or less a victimless crime (no one has to be harmed in making and distributing drugs, though some producers certainly do that, but so does any capitalistic system; the cartels aren't significantly worse than buying from Apple) and they really just need help. Child pornography is never a victimless crime.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    > the cartels aren't significantly worse than buying from Apple I am warning everyone, this is not a joke — this is a video of a 14-year-old girl working for one cartel being dismembered and decapitated by a rival cartel: http://dump.bitcheese.net/files/syjukod/VID_20180306_225243_263.mp4 http://dump.bitcheese.net/files/syjukod/VID_20180306_225243_... Please link the video of Tim Cook doing this.
    - plussed_reader 9y ago
      Here you go: http://www.facing-finance.org/en/database/cases/working-conditions-in-foxconn-factories-in-china/ http://www.facing-finance.org/en/database/cases/working-cond... Do you think the global drug trade 'provides work' for more than 500,000?
    - SolarNet 9y ago
      Foxconn has 14 year old workers. Foxconn workers commit suicide over working conditions. Foxconn has violent drunken fights between workers that injure dozens of people (including those 14 year old workers by the by). It isn't significantly different.
      - ggg9990 9y ago
        Foxconn workers suicide rate has never been demonstrated to be extraordinary.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - joyeuse6701 9y ago
        Nothing is significantly different if you go up enough layers of abstraction. I think it's pretty obvious there's a difference between collateral damage caused by a drunken riot, and the sober specific targeting of an economic rival by torturing a child, you know, to an empathetic human.
        SolarNet 9y ago
        I certainly think the cartels are worse. But both torture children soberly for economic gain. I have empathy for both situations. But just because Foxconn is legal, doesn't really make it better. Also in case anyone missed it today, corporations have increased the violence they use against their critics (rivals?) [0]. Certainly the cartels are worse with their brutality, but they are no different than any other modern international capitalistic enterprise. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/09/human-rights-activists-growing-risk-attacks-and-killings-study-claims https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/09/h...
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    " the cartels aren't significantly worse than buying from Apple" No.
- obmelvin 9y ago
  From what I've read (including one of your sibling comments), when it comes to CP there is much less of a seller and user dichotomy. Many times people are both consumers and producers. Some sites/networks will even require someone to submit new content before they can join to see other content (although I don't have a source for this and don't particularly care to dig one up).
ufo 9y ago
I have heard that child porn is actually more difficult to take down than drugs because the crime network topology is much more decentralized, with lots of the abusers acting as both producers and consumers. Drug trafficking on the other hand is much more asymmetrical and hierarchical so taking out an important drug dealer has a much more disruptive effect on the network (at least on the short term).
- Macha 9y ago
  There's also the case that many drug buyers live in jurisdictions where the consequences to them of being found to buy recreational drugs are minimal (Even in this case, the consequences for buyers were some police pointing out "hey, we know"), so they aren't particularly incentivized to cover their tracks or use more secure measures than they would for e.g. facebook, as opposed to child porn which is taken seriously in every jurisdiction. I imagine this leaves the police with fewer entry points.

Para2016 9y ago

That would be cool to read a take down story about that instead of drugs. That makes me curious though, it sounds like in the drug takedown the users are largely spared but the dealers are targeted. Is it the same for child porn/trafficking? I would prefer they go after everyone in those rings..

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
SolarNet 9y ago
I think a lot of more progressive(?) places let drug users off because it's more or less a victimless crime (no one has to be harmed in making and distributing drugs, though some producers certainly do that, but so does any capitalistic system; the cartels aren't significantly worse than buying from Apple) and they really just need help. Child pornography is never a victimless crime.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  > the cartels aren't significantly worse than buying from Apple I am warning everyone, this is not a joke — this is a video of a 14-year-old girl working for one cartel being dismembered and decapitated by a rival cartel: http://dump.bitcheese.net/files/syjukod/VID_20180306_225243_263.mp4 http://dump.bitcheese.net/files/syjukod/VID_20180306_225243_... Please link the video of Tim Cook doing this.
  - plussed_reader 9y ago
    Here you go: http://www.facing-finance.org/en/database/cases/working-conditions-in-foxconn-factories-in-china/ http://www.facing-finance.org/en/database/cases/working-cond... Do you think the global drug trade 'provides work' for more than 500,000?
  - SolarNet 9y ago
    Foxconn has 14 year old workers. Foxconn workers commit suicide over working conditions. Foxconn has violent drunken fights between workers that injure dozens of people (including those 14 year old workers by the by). It isn't significantly different.
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      Foxconn workers suicide rate has never been demonstrated to be extraordinary.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - joyeuse6701 9y ago
      Nothing is significantly different if you go up enough layers of abstraction. I think it's pretty obvious there's a difference between collateral damage caused by a drunken riot, and the sober specific targeting of an economic rival by torturing a child, you know, to an empathetic human.
      - SolarNet 9y ago
        I certainly think the cartels are worse. But both torture children soberly for economic gain. I have empathy for both situations. But just because Foxconn is legal, doesn't really make it better. Also in case anyone missed it today, corporations have increased the violence they use against their critics (rivals?) [0]. Certainly the cartels are worse with their brutality, but they are no different than any other modern international capitalistic enterprise. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/09/human-rights-activists-growing-risk-attacks-and-killings-study-claims https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/09/h...
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  " the cartels aren't significantly worse than buying from Apple" No.
obmelvin 9y ago
From what I've read (including one of your sibling comments), when it comes to CP there is much less of a seller and user dichotomy. Many times people are both consumers and producers. Some sites/networks will even require someone to submit new content before they can join to see other content (although I don't have a source for this and don't particularly care to dig one up).

ufo 9y ago

I have heard that child porn is actually more difficult to take down than drugs because the crime network topology is much more decentralized, with lots of the abusers acting as both producers and consumers. Drug trafficking on the other hand is much more asymmetrical and hierarchical so taking out an important drug dealer has a much more disruptive effect on the network (at least on the short term).

Macha 9y ago
There's also the case that many drug buyers live in jurisdictions where the consequences to them of being found to buy recreational drugs are minimal (Even in this case, the consequences for buyers were some police pointing out "hey, we know"), so they aren't particularly incentivized to cover their tracks or use more secure measures than they would for e.g. facebook, as opposed to child porn which is taken seriously in every jurisdiction. I imagine this leaves the police with fewer entry points.