7 ms·

This is fascinating. I had no idea ice could take on so many crystalline forms depending on the variety of conditions. Apparently there are other shapes even be

This is fascinating. I had no idea ice could take on so many crystalline forms depending on the variety of conditions. Apparently there are other shapes even beyond those mentioned in the article: http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html

fastball 9y ago
If you find this interesting, you might enjoy Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle", which is based around a highly dangerous (and imaginary) form of ice, ice-nine. And even if you aren't super excited about ice-nine, it's still a highly enjoyable read.
- luhn 9y ago
  I do really like Cat's Cradle, but I don't think its a relevant recommendation. Ice-nine is only a plot device, the book isn't about ice at all.
  - theoh 9y ago
    Well, ice-nine does have a relationship to water specifically. For whatever reason, TV Tropes doesn't currently consider it an instance of the Phlebotinum trope (any substance or phenomenon which is essentially an entirely unexplained but powerful plot device). Maybe that's an unintentional omission from the wiki, but it could be that the somewhat elaborated hard SF backstory of ice-nine means that it's not just considered "plot fuel". http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CatsCradle http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CatsCradle
- trophycase 9y ago
  My first thought when reading the article title was ice-nine :)
- cachvico 9y ago
  ..and listen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyVWQH7jIg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyVWQH7jIg8
- anamexis 9y ago
  There was also a real-life scare in the 70s around "polywater" [1][2] that some people worried could "infect" other water. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywater [2] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/polywater-the-soviet-scientific-secret-that-made-the-world-gulp https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/polywater-the-soviet-s...
  - scruple 9y ago
    That Wikipedia article is great. I love the introduction paragraph. > By 1969 the popular press had taken notice and sparked fears of a "polywater gap" in the USA. I find it illuminating to understand that "journalists," or the "popular press," were ratcheting up the "fear sells" / fake news bullshit at least as far back as 1969 (and I'm sure it goes back much further). If you were ignorant, and I certainly am, you would think that this is a wholly new phenomenon. I mean, that is what the same "popular press" is telling us today, right?
    - Kalium 9y ago
      You might find it informative to read up on the long and inglorious history of "Yellow Journalism". Fearmongering was a time-honored business model for a long time.
    - njarboe 9y ago
      There was even a phrase coined in the 1890's for such journalism; "Yellow Journalism[1]" From the wikipedia article. Frank Luther Mott (of the same era) on the five main characteristics of yellow journalism: 1. Scare headlines in huge print, often of minor news 2. Lavish use of pictures, or imaginary drawings 3. Use of faked interviews, misleading headlines, pseudoscience, and a parade of false learning from so-called experts 4. Emphasis on full-color Sunday supplements, usually with comic strips 5. Dramatic sympathy with the "underdog" against the system.
    - saeranv 9y ago
      I think it's inaccurate and unhelpful to blame the "popular press" and contributes to making a false equivalence about the role of journalism to today's toxic politics (which I find very frustrating). Such a phrase can include everything from: NYTimes, popular tabloids, Fox and Friends, Fox news InfoWars, Slate, the Economist etc etc. There's a huge range of journalistic integrity and quality in that. For all its mistakes, let's not equate the new york times with fox and friends...
- Erlangolem 9y ago
  Something similar happened with a drug: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritonavir#Polymorphism_and_temporary_market_withdrawal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritonavir#Polymorphism_and_t...
jobu 9y ago
Definitely learned something new today. Here's a phase diagram of the info in your link: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Phase_diagram_of_water.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Phase_di...
- mapimopi 9y ago
  This diagram is so weird to me. Bottom part is simple and neat, while the top half just goes crazy. My puny brain desperately wants this world to be understandable and elegantly designed, but apparently atomic structure has a different idea.
  - rainbowmverse 9y ago
    All the noise is just details. The chart is basically three parts: 1: Blue is all the pressures and temperatures where water is solid. 2: Green is all the pressures and temperatures where water is liquid. 3: Yellowish red is all the pressures and temperatures where water is vapour. I'm not sure what to make of the points and little lines. They seem to have something to do with the ranges within those ranges where the different kinds of ice occur.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  I guess this chart means that water can only present in trenches and other low lying areas of Mars? On surface, pressure is 600pa but liquid water needs slightly more to avoid boiling instantly.
martin-adams 9y ago
I remember watching a video on YouTube a few years ago that there are many different structures of ice, and when you cool it down to a specific temperature, it makes a loud cracking noise as it transitions from one form to the other. I can't remember the details exactly sadly.
agumonkey 9y ago
I believe this guy does research on frozen water crystals https://twitter.com/DevilleSy https://twitter.com/DevilleSy (at least he does tweet a lot about flakes and has written a book at Wiley's or Springer so..)
archgoon 9y ago
You might find John Baez's article on this interesting. https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/ice/ https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/ice/ He covers both the basics, and some of the reasons why he, as a mathematician, finds the variety of ice structures interesting. Of note, he mentions that Ice VII (the type of ice discovered in the article) has previously been created by Sandia's Z Machine http://www.sandia.gov/z-machine/ http://www.sandia.gov/z-machine/

fastball 9y ago

If you find this interesting, you might enjoy Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle", which is based around a highly dangerous (and imaginary) form of ice, ice-nine. And even if you aren't super excited about ice-nine, it's still a highly enjoyable read.

luhn 9y ago
I do really like Cat's Cradle, but I don't think its a relevant recommendation. Ice-nine is only a plot device, the book isn't about ice at all.
- theoh 9y ago
  Well, ice-nine does have a relationship to water specifically. For whatever reason, TV Tropes doesn't currently consider it an instance of the Phlebotinum trope (any substance or phenomenon which is essentially an entirely unexplained but powerful plot device). Maybe that's an unintentional omission from the wiki, but it could be that the somewhat elaborated hard SF backstory of ice-nine means that it's not just considered "plot fuel". http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CatsCradle http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CatsCradle
trophycase 9y ago
My first thought when reading the article title was ice-nine :)
cachvico 9y ago
..and listen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyVWQH7jIg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyVWQH7jIg8
anamexis 9y ago
There was also a real-life scare in the 70s around "polywater" [1][2] that some people worried could "infect" other water. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywater [2] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/polywater-the-soviet-scientific-secret-that-made-the-world-gulp https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/polywater-the-soviet-s...
- scruple 9y ago
  That Wikipedia article is great. I love the introduction paragraph. > By 1969 the popular press had taken notice and sparked fears of a "polywater gap" in the USA. I find it illuminating to understand that "journalists," or the "popular press," were ratcheting up the "fear sells" / fake news bullshit at least as far back as 1969 (and I'm sure it goes back much further). If you were ignorant, and I certainly am, you would think that this is a wholly new phenomenon. I mean, that is what the same "popular press" is telling us today, right?
  - Kalium 9y ago
    You might find it informative to read up on the long and inglorious history of "Yellow Journalism". Fearmongering was a time-honored business model for a long time.
  - njarboe 9y ago
    There was even a phrase coined in the 1890's for such journalism; "Yellow Journalism[1]" From the wikipedia article. Frank Luther Mott (of the same era) on the five main characteristics of yellow journalism: 1. Scare headlines in huge print, often of minor news 2. Lavish use of pictures, or imaginary drawings 3. Use of faked interviews, misleading headlines, pseudoscience, and a parade of false learning from so-called experts 4. Emphasis on full-color Sunday supplements, usually with comic strips 5. Dramatic sympathy with the "underdog" against the system.
  - saeranv 9y ago
    I think it's inaccurate and unhelpful to blame the "popular press" and contributes to making a false equivalence about the role of journalism to today's toxic politics (which I find very frustrating). Such a phrase can include everything from: NYTimes, popular tabloids, Fox and Friends, Fox news InfoWars, Slate, the Economist etc etc. There's a huge range of journalistic integrity and quality in that. For all its mistakes, let's not equate the new york times with fox and friends...
Erlangolem 9y ago
Something similar happened with a drug: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritonavir#Polymorphism_and_temporary_market_withdrawal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritonavir#Polymorphism_and_t...

jobu 9y ago

Definitely learned something new today. Here's a phase diagram of the info in your link: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Phase_diagram_of_water.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Phase_di...

mapimopi 9y ago
This diagram is so weird to me. Bottom part is simple and neat, while the top half just goes crazy. My puny brain desperately wants this world to be understandable and elegantly designed, but apparently atomic structure has a different idea.
- rainbowmverse 9y ago
  All the noise is just details. The chart is basically three parts: 1: Blue is all the pressures and temperatures where water is solid. 2: Green is all the pressures and temperatures where water is liquid. 3: Yellowish red is all the pressures and temperatures where water is vapour. I'm not sure what to make of the points and little lines. They seem to have something to do with the ranges within those ranges where the different kinds of ice occur.
thriftwy 9y ago
I guess this chart means that water can only present in trenches and other low lying areas of Mars? On surface, pressure is 600pa but liquid water needs slightly more to avoid boiling instantly.

martin-adams 9y ago

I remember watching a video on YouTube a few years ago that there are many different structures of ice, and when you cool it down to a specific temperature, it makes a loud cracking noise as it transitions from one form to the other. I can't remember the details exactly sadly.

agumonkey 9y ago

I believe this guy does research on frozen water crystals https://twitter.com/DevilleSy https://twitter.com/DevilleSy (at least he does tweet a lot about flakes and has written a book at Wiley's or Springer so..)

archgoon 9y ago

You might find John Baez's article on this interesting. https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/ice/ https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/ice/ He covers both the basics, and some of the reasons why he, as a mathematician, finds the variety of ice structures interesting. Of note, he mentions that Ice VII (the type of ice discovered in the article) has previously been created by Sandia's Z Machine http://www.sandia.gov/z-machine/ http://www.sandia.gov/z-machine/