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which renewables are truly clean? Wind turbines require so much material and energy to manufacture that they will compensate this only over their whole lifetime

which renewables are truly clean? Wind turbines require so much material and energy to manufacture that they will compensate this only over their whole lifetime. No clue about solar panels. China is building tons of new coal plants to cover its current needs. It doesn't seem that renewables are that great, when not subsidized (which is the only true measure of effectivity)

incompatible 9y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/29/turbines-energy https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/29/turbines...
alex_duf 9y ago
>China is building tons of new coal plants to cover its current needs Not so sure about this one: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-power-plants-green-energy-china-india https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-pow... Sure they are still building but at a rate that has been drastically shaken up by both the price of renewables and their own environmental policies. Now regarding the environmental impact of producing solar panels and wind turbines, they clearly are carbon negatives http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/rooftop-solar http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/roo... http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/wind-turbines-offshore http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/win... Though I'm sure they can't have no-impact, you will get some other form of pollution, but at the moment what matters most if reducing our greenhouse effect. It's cheap, it's already there so there's no reason to delay it I think.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  OK I stand corrected, thank you both
tim333 9y ago
I think your numbers may be off for wind turbines. Random googling gives >for an offshore wind turbine 0.57 years of expected average energy production are necessary to recover all the energy consumed for manufacturing, operation, transport, dismantling and disposal https://www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/energy-balance-analysis-7.html https://www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/energy-balance-analysi...

incompatible 9y ago

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/29/turbines-energy https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/29/turbines...

alex_duf 9y ago

>China is building tons of new coal plants to cover its current needs Not so sure about this one: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-power-plants-green-energy-china-india https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-pow... Sure they are still building but at a rate that has been drastically shaken up by both the price of renewables and their own environmental policies. Now regarding the environmental impact of producing solar panels and wind turbines, they clearly are carbon negatives http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/rooftop-solar http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/roo... http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/wind-turbines-offshore http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/electricity-generation/win... Though I'm sure they can't have no-impact, you will get some other form of pollution, but at the moment what matters most if reducing our greenhouse effect. It's cheap, it's already there so there's no reason to delay it I think.

saiya-jin 9y ago
OK I stand corrected, thank you both

tim333 9y ago

I think your numbers may be off for wind turbines. Random googling gives >for an offshore wind turbine 0.57 years of expected average energy production are necessary to recover all the energy consumed for manufacturing, operation, transport, dismantling and disposal https://www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/energy-balance-analysis-7.html https://www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/energy-balance-analysi...