4 ms·

For decades, the media have been misreporting what is known about intelligence, because it is politically incorrect. A good book documenting this is "The I. Q.

For decades, the media have been misreporting what is known about intelligence, because it is politically incorrect. A good book documenting this is "The I. Q. Controversy: The Media and Public Policy" by Stanley Rothman and Mark Snyderman (1988).

Someone1234 9y ago
A book that sent out a questionnaire to [mostly white] academics and then tried to conclude fact about different race's intelligence as a result of those questionnaires? It is fluff. The whole methodology is set out here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_and_Public_Policy_(book)#Synopsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_...
- poster123 9y ago
  Since most professors in the U.S. are white, especially in 1998 when the book was published, I wonder why you think that the professors surveyed being "mostly white" discredits the book. Do you have any evidence that non-white professors were systematically excluded from the study?
  - Someone1234 9y ago
    > I wonder why you think that the professors surveyed being "mostly white" discredits the book. That wasn't what I said. What I said was: > then tried to conclude fact about different race's intelligence as a result of those questionnaires They surveyed one demographic and asked them to draw conclusions about another demographic without considering the innate biases of doing so. I called the book "fluff" which I stand behind. It doesn't provide any new scientific data, even the selection of questions, who they selected to send them to, and other actions by the researches introduced a ton of biasing issues. Their whole goal was to discrete what they viewed as "liberal academia."
saas_co_de 9y ago
That "political correctness" as you call it is masking a much deeper problem. If you believe that there are innate differences in intelligence then what do you do about it? If we are not going to discriminate based on innate differentiators like gender, race, etc, then how can we discriminate based on intelligence, if it is innate? The idea of social justice for people with innately low intelligence is very disruptive so better to pretend they don't exist.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  >If we are not going to discriminate based on innate differentiators like gender, race, etc, then how can we discriminate based on intelligence, if it is innate? I have to admit I feel a lot of anxiety trying to answer your question in good faith, because this is such a touchy subject. Accurately measuring innate differences, if such things exist, is essential to determining if systemic bias exists and to what extent. If Ashkenazi Jews have a higher than average verbal IQ, maybe it's not surprising that they appear over-represented in top tier verbal IQ jobs (media, etc.). If East Asians have higher than average spacial intelligence, maybe it's not surprising that they appear over-represented in engineering disciplines. Importantly, these statistical differences tell us nothing useful about any specific individual.
- poster123 9y ago
  It is essential to discriminate in hiring on the basis of qualities that are relevant for the job. If a person's race or sex does not affect his or her ability to perform as a programmer, but his or her intelligence does, then of course you use perceived intelligence as a criterion. Athletic ability is heritable. How can sports teams not discriminate on the basis of athletic ability?
  - saas_co_de 9y ago
    > How can sports teams not discriminate on the basis of athletic ability? What applies to a few thousand people playing games does not necessarily apply to society at large. > It is essential to discriminate in hiring on the basis of qualities that are relevant for the job Yes, the job has to fit the person, but what about the salary? If a person can only qualify for a certain position based on their innate intelligence then they should not earn less because of that. Jobs might be distributed based on innate intelligence but distributing income based on innate intelligence would seem to be counter to the anti-discrimination norms that our society lives by.

Someone1234 9y ago

A book that sent out a questionnaire to [mostly white] academics and then tried to conclude fact about different race's intelligence as a result of those questionnaires? It is fluff. The whole methodology is set out here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_and_Public_Policy_(book)#Synopsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_...

poster123 9y ago
Since most professors in the U.S. are white, especially in 1998 when the book was published, I wonder why you think that the professors surveyed being "mostly white" discredits the book. Do you have any evidence that non-white professors were systematically excluded from the study?
- Someone1234 9y ago
  > I wonder why you think that the professors surveyed being "mostly white" discredits the book. That wasn't what I said. What I said was: > then tried to conclude fact about different race's intelligence as a result of those questionnaires They surveyed one demographic and asked them to draw conclusions about another demographic without considering the innate biases of doing so. I called the book "fluff" which I stand behind. It doesn't provide any new scientific data, even the selection of questions, who they selected to send them to, and other actions by the researches introduced a ton of biasing issues. Their whole goal was to discrete what they viewed as "liberal academia."

saas_co_de 9y ago

That "political correctness" as you call it is masking a much deeper problem. If you believe that there are innate differences in intelligence then what do you do about it? If we are not going to discriminate based on innate differentiators like gender, race, etc, then how can we discriminate based on intelligence, if it is innate? The idea of social justice for people with innately low intelligence is very disruptive so better to pretend they don't exist.

Consultant32452 9y ago
>If we are not going to discriminate based on innate differentiators like gender, race, etc, then how can we discriminate based on intelligence, if it is innate? I have to admit I feel a lot of anxiety trying to answer your question in good faith, because this is such a touchy subject. Accurately measuring innate differences, if such things exist, is essential to determining if systemic bias exists and to what extent. If Ashkenazi Jews have a higher than average verbal IQ, maybe it's not surprising that they appear over-represented in top tier verbal IQ jobs (media, etc.). If East Asians have higher than average spacial intelligence, maybe it's not surprising that they appear over-represented in engineering disciplines. Importantly, these statistical differences tell us nothing useful about any specific individual.
poster123 9y ago
It is essential to discriminate in hiring on the basis of qualities that are relevant for the job. If a person's race or sex does not affect his or her ability to perform as a programmer, but his or her intelligence does, then of course you use perceived intelligence as a criterion. Athletic ability is heritable. How can sports teams not discriminate on the basis of athletic ability?
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  > How can sports teams not discriminate on the basis of athletic ability? What applies to a few thousand people playing games does not necessarily apply to society at large. > It is essential to discriminate in hiring on the basis of qualities that are relevant for the job Yes, the job has to fit the person, but what about the salary? If a person can only qualify for a certain position based on their innate intelligence then they should not earn less because of that. Jobs might be distributed based on innate intelligence but distributing income based on innate intelligence would seem to be counter to the anti-discrimination norms that our society lives by.