5 ms·

To me, that's like saying grandma doesn't deserve to keep $2 million house she bought many years ago for $20 thousand because someone with $2 million wants her

To me, that's like saying grandma doesn't deserve to keep $2 million house she bought many years ago for $20 thousand because someone with $2 million wants her property.

murph-almighty 9y ago
Why so? Here Grandma owns the house, but in the other situation she doesn't own the apartment, the landlord does.
- amorphid 9y ago
  Because the landlord knew exactly what they were doing when they rented the apartment to Grandma. If the landlord didn't want to enter into a contract the involving rent control, they shouldn't have been in the business of renting NYC apartments.
  - true_religion 9y ago
    Contract law usually doesn't allow for lifetime contracts because people can't consider such a long timespan logically. Rent control is the same thing. It forces a contract with on going payments and services with no end date. Is there any escape clause?
    - eric_h 9y ago
      As far as I'm aware, people occupying rent controlled apartments (in NYC) can opt to be bought out by their landlord. I've heard a number of stories of people using that windfall (generally buyouts are on the order of $10^4-10^5) to improve their general living situation, and I've also heard stories (including someone I knew personally) of people squandering that windfall and ending up living out of their car.
    - mjcl 9y ago
      Isn't an NDA a lifetime contract?
      - pc86 9y ago
        I have never seen (and certainly have never signed) an NDA that covers an indefinite period of time.
    - srtjstjsj 9y ago
      Isn't a sale a lifetime contract?
      - pc86 9y ago
        Apartment rental is explicitly not a sale. We should probably keep talking about the same thing and not keep moving the goalposts to suit our argument.
    - amorphid 9y ago
      IANAL... I believe the landlord is bound by the language of the law, not the contract. If the law enabling grandma's rent control were fully repealed, there'd be no rent control-related reason the landlord couldn't raise Grandma's rent to market rent. Basically, Grandma AND the landlord both needed to know what they were getting in to. Grandma: "I want this apartment." Landlord: "OK, it's $250/month with rent control. But just so you know, if they ever repeal that law, and market rate is more than the $250/month you're paying, I'm raising you rent." Grandma: "Understood. If I were the landlord, I'd raise the rent on the grandma renting my apartment, too."
  - lr4444lr 9y ago
    Not true: blanket legislation in NY brought all buildings constructed pre 1947 into rent control and rent-stabilization to pre-1974 buildings: https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tenants_rights.pdf https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tenants_rights.pdf
pc86 9y ago
And to people who view "sale" and "rent" as interchangeable, that might make some sense. A better argument might have been to go the property tax route but that's still not very convincing.
Kalium 9y ago
How much sympathy should we have for Grandma McMoneybags here when people making in situations just like hers are helping drive a housing crisis? In California, this isn't a hypothetical. Especially because she pays property taxes as if the thing is worth a number much closer to $20k than $20mil.

To me, that's like saying grandma doesn't deserve to keep $2 million house she bought many years ago for $20 thousand because someone with $2 million wants her property.

murph-almighty 9y ago

Why so? Here Grandma owns the house, but in the other situation she doesn't own the apartment, the landlord does.

amorphid 9y ago
Because the landlord knew exactly what they were doing when they rented the apartment to Grandma. If the landlord didn't want to enter into a contract the involving rent control, they shouldn't have been in the business of renting NYC apartments.
- true_religion 9y ago
  Contract law usually doesn't allow for lifetime contracts because people can't consider such a long timespan logically. Rent control is the same thing. It forces a contract with on going payments and services with no end date. Is there any escape clause?
  - eric_h 9y ago
    As far as I'm aware, people occupying rent controlled apartments (in NYC) can opt to be bought out by their landlord. I've heard a number of stories of people using that windfall (generally buyouts are on the order of $10^4-10^5) to improve their general living situation, and I've also heard stories (including someone I knew personally) of people squandering that windfall and ending up living out of their car.
  - mjcl 9y ago
    Isn't an NDA a lifetime contract?
    - pc86 9y ago
      I have never seen (and certainly have never signed) an NDA that covers an indefinite period of time.
  - srtjstjsj 9y ago
    Isn't a sale a lifetime contract?
    - pc86 9y ago
      Apartment rental is explicitly not a sale. We should probably keep talking about the same thing and not keep moving the goalposts to suit our argument.
  - amorphid 9y ago
    IANAL... I believe the landlord is bound by the language of the law, not the contract. If the law enabling grandma's rent control were fully repealed, there'd be no rent control-related reason the landlord couldn't raise Grandma's rent to market rent. Basically, Grandma AND the landlord both needed to know what they were getting in to. Grandma: "I want this apartment." Landlord: "OK, it's $250/month with rent control. But just so you know, if they ever repeal that law, and market rate is more than the $250/month you're paying, I'm raising you rent." Grandma: "Understood. If I were the landlord, I'd raise the rent on the grandma renting my apartment, too."
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  Not true: blanket legislation in NY brought all buildings constructed pre 1947 into rent control and rent-stabilization to pre-1974 buildings: https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tenants_rights.pdf https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tenants_rights.pdf

pc86 9y ago

And to people who view "sale" and "rent" as interchangeable, that might make some sense. A better argument might have been to go the property tax route but that's still not very convincing.

Kalium 9y ago

How much sympathy should we have for Grandma McMoneybags here when people making in situations just like hers are helping drive a housing crisis? In California, this isn't a hypothetical. Especially because she pays property taxes as if the thing is worth a number much closer to $20k than $20mil.