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> Now, my moral value system doesn't classify suicide as negative, so I can't really agree with the premise of the article, yet I definitely support limitations

by awild 9y ago

> Now, my moral value system doesn't classify suicide as negative, so I can't really agree with the premise of the article, yet I definitely support limitations on the availability and use of pesticides, e.g. to prevent children accidentially poisoning themselves etc. I have a similar painpoint with this: even if their attempt at reducing suicide succeeded, they didn't help people much. Assuming (as they have to) that the situation in Sri Lanka is the same or similar as with toxic pesticides, the only thing they achieved is make escaping that shitty situation harder, not making the lives better, by effectively reducing suicidal thoughts. The point they are trying to make that suicide is a spontaneuous/irrational decision hardly counts in a statistic like that.

Anderkent 9y ago
>Assuming (as they have to) that the situation in Sri Lanka is the same or similar as with toxic pesticides, the only thing they achieved is make escaping that shitty situation harder, not making the lives better, by effectively reducing suicidal thoughts. The point they are trying to make that suicide is a spontaneuous/irrational decision hardly counts in a statistic like that. How does it not??? If the suicide is a decision made under the influence of a 30-minute-long depressive episode, and outside that episode the person would prefer to live, how is preventing the suicidies by making them harder to perform spontaneously not making people's lives better? Why does it 'hardly count'?
- awild 9y ago
  Because this is a strucural thing. If we are to believe that not much changed, there are still ~57/1000 people who have an episode so severe as to make them consider suicide, of which 40 are stopped by the mere abscence of a simple method, there are still 57/1000 people whose lifes are so bad they honestly consider suicide. Additionally, the researches do not say the people are not depressed before committing suicide, the research says they consider suicide with that specific method for just 30 minutes prior to killing themselves, their lifes and state of mind outside that 30 minute timeframe is not considered. And my assumption is that their lives had been bad before considering suicide, but something pushed them over the edge.
  - Anderkent 9y ago
    Of course their lives are bad! No one claims this solves the entire problem. But claiming that it is not an improvement is falling for the same fallacy as to when people were complaining that peta was giving water to people for turning vegetarian. You don't have to fix everything - in fact no one ever can - to be helpful

by awild 9y ago

Anderkent 9y ago

>Assuming (as they have to) that the situation in Sri Lanka is the same or similar as with toxic pesticides, the only thing they achieved is make escaping that shitty situation harder, not making the lives better, by effectively reducing suicidal thoughts. The point they are trying to make that suicide is a spontaneuous/irrational decision hardly counts in a statistic like that. How does it not??? If the suicide is a decision made under the influence of a 30-minute-long depressive episode, and outside that episode the person would prefer to live, how is preventing the suicidies by making them harder to perform spontaneously not making people's lives better? Why does it 'hardly count'?

awild 9y ago
Because this is a strucural thing. If we are to believe that not much changed, there are still ~57/1000 people who have an episode so severe as to make them consider suicide, of which 40 are stopped by the mere abscence of a simple method, there are still 57/1000 people whose lifes are so bad they honestly consider suicide. Additionally, the researches do not say the people are not depressed before committing suicide, the research says they consider suicide with that specific method for just 30 minutes prior to killing themselves, their lifes and state of mind outside that 30 minute timeframe is not considered. And my assumption is that their lives had been bad before considering suicide, but something pushed them over the edge.
- Anderkent 9y ago
  Of course their lives are bad! No one claims this solves the entire problem. But claiming that it is not an improvement is falling for the same fallacy as to when people were complaining that peta was giving water to people for turning vegetarian. You don't have to fix everything - in fact no one ever can - to be helpful