8 ms·

I wonder what's the impact of requiring Google/Facebook accounts to sign up. I never sign up for anything that requires either, but at the same time I'm not the

I wonder what's the impact of requiring Google/Facebook accounts to sign up. I never sign up for anything that requires either, but at the same time I'm not the target demographic. I'm also surprised that users would ask for PayPal support. I've read too many PayPal horror stories to trust them, but apparently users like it.

yelnatz 9y ago
I'm a sucker for PayPal. Most of the time it's 2-3 clicks when I want to buy something off of a random website, worst case is I have to login again. Compare that to reaching out for your credit card and putting in your info. Plus you'd have to trust them now with your CC data.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  >Plus you'd have to trust them now with your CC data. This is a failure of the CC provider, not that the customer cares. If you use something like 3D secure, you don't have to worry about the merchant misusing your data.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Don't underestimate laziness; I've given up on buying stuff just to avoid getting up from the couch or bed to get my phone :D It also made purchases with the company CC annoying - couldn't buy anything when the boss was in a meeting.
  - romaniv 9y ago
    Last time I read about it, using 3D Secure changed your liability agreement with the credit card provider. Not to mention that its implementation is a confusing mess that bounces you between badly designed websites with questionable security.
- mf2hd 9y ago
  Exactly this. I just don't want to get up, find my wallet, enter the card number, choose the expiration date from a select, enter the CVV, hit submit, and after all this there is a chance it's not going to work, who knows why, I don't even care. I don't like paypal, but it's really convenient.
  - joering2 9y ago
    Is your browser so out of date or you dont like storing your cc info? As much as i remember few years ago chrome asked me already if i want to save the cc card i entered into the form for future use.
    - Kluny 9y ago
      It still won't store the cvc, and plenty of sites do weird idiosyncratic labels on their forms that break the autocomplete.
      - ChristianGeek 9y ago
        I use my credit card online so often that I have the card number, expiration date, and CVC memorized.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- treis 9y ago
  With Chrome autocomplete it's even faster to put in my own CC.
- tomcam 9y ago
  Same here, plus a consistent and searchable email record.
nl 9y ago
I always prefer to use PayPal when it's offered.
kelnage 9y ago
In my experience, all the PayPal horror stories I have seen have been from merchants rather than users. PayPal tends to do a good job of protecting users, often to the detriment of merchants’ trust. Also, PayPal services a niche of users who have bank accounts and/or PayPal credit, but no access to a widely accepted debit or credit card (such as Visa or MasterCard). Those users are often unable to use most other payment providers.
- ReverseCold 9y ago
  I'd rather pay with PayPal on a small web shop than input my card details. If anything goes wrong it's super easy to get it fixed through PayPal. Stripe doesn't cut it because it's on the merchant's site, so I have no way to tell if it's actually stripe or if they're pretending to be stripe. A lot of small tech-related web shops do take Bitcoin though- so if I think I can trust them (and if Bitcoin is an option) I will use that instead.
  - gcb0 9y ago
    that's not praising paypal (or btc:), just picking the lesser of two evils
    - Bizarro 9y ago
      Can you explain your response to his comment. He was just making a statement of preference, and nothing to do with praising anybody. It's just better off not to make the type of comments you made, tying to weave your personal preferences into some else's statement of preference by interjecting some form of relativity of "evilness".
  - spookthesunset 9y ago
    > A lot of small tech-related web shops do take Bitcoin though- so if I think I can trust them (and if Bitcoin is an option) I will use that instead. So you will replace a payment method that has a method for recourse when you get fucked with one that is completely irreversible? That doesn't make any sense at all. Even if Paypal or your CC isn't perfect, at least you have some form of recourse. With bitcoin, when you get fucked over, you are completely shit out of luck.
tome 9y ago
> I've read too many PayPal horror stories to trust them, but apparently users like it. Aren't the PayPal horror stories from the vendors not the customers?
thisisit 9y ago
While I have been once on the receiving end of PayPal's wrath, I can see why people prefer it, especially with it's strong buyer protection program. The very first site which I encountered with Stripe, about 3-4 years ago, dint get my money. It just looked odd design for a gateway, I was expecting a "seal" etc on the page with a proclamation about 128-bit encryption and what not. I emailed the website owner to include a "traditional" gateway or PayPal. Since then I have paid with Stripe on some sites but I can also see why people feel uncomfortable with it.
gchadwick 9y ago
Personally I prefer to use PayPal for small sites where offered. Yes there are some PayPal horror stories but I'm generally happy for PayPal to have my credit card details (almost every horror story I've heard has been for sellers not from people using it to pay). Saves me the bother of trying to decide if I actually want to trust a site I've only just encountered with them. I also don't like linking sites to either my google or facebook accounts. If they don't offer email sign-up I'm almost certainly going to go elsewhere unless I really want to use that particular website.
downandout 9y ago
Re: PayPal, the problem is that it is a nightmare for merchants but convenient for many consumers. On the merchant side, it’s only a matter of time before the account gets frozen (at least temporarily) and funds held for up to six months. It’s just what they do, seemingly regardless of chargeback rates or other risk indicators. One other problem with offering PayPal as an option for a technical product/service isn’t as obvious, but is just as important. In my experience, the kind of skeptical user that insists on using PayPal because they don’t trust a given site with their credit card information tends to be more trouble than they are worth. They tend to require far higher levels of customer support than average, and will often eventually request a refund anyway because they have unrealistic expectations of either the product or its support. Also, many PayPal users abuse the deference that company pays to consumers when the consumer initiates even the most absurd dispute, and use the service with an eye toward disputing the charge from the outset. In short, for a technical product/service, those that would insist on PayPal are the PIA (pain in the ass) type customers you should avoid at all costs anyway. If someone emails you asking why you don’t accept PayPal, remind them that all major credit/debit card issuers offer generous $0 fraud liability programs and move on with your life. Don’t go down the PayPal rabbit hole, as you will be sure to regret it in one way or another.
- rf15 9y ago
  Happy paypal user here; don't like handing out credit card info and never contacted customer support or requested a refund of companies I dealt with. Don't give in to stereotypes so easily and do not call part of your customer base a pia just because they want support for an exceedingly common payment service.
  - downandout 9y ago
    I am referring not just to PayPal users, but those that would refuse to pay a given site for a service they need unless they offer PayPal. The combination of being a “difficult” customer along with the risks of using PayPal in general simply make it not worth it to allow those people to become customers. You may be an exception to the rule, but overall it’s simply a losing proposition for the merchant.
jaclaz 9y ago
Personally I wouldn't even think (but specifically it doesn't matter as I don't make/edit videos anyway) of using Google or Facebook access for anything. BUT yes, I would rather prefer to have the Paypal option (again not relevant here) as it is faster/easier than having to input the credit card data and - as I see it - more secure than providing those numbers to a "stranger on the internet". The credit card I have on Paypal is anyway a "rechargeable one" and has more or less at the most US$ 200 credit at any time. And this - conversely - makes any kind of subscription or recurring payment a no-no for me. If I want something, and it is reasonably priced, I buy it, and that's it, everything similar to Saas with monthly fees or similar I try to avoid. I thought I was the exception, being older and grumpier than the average, but from the article it seems like I am not alone.
lucaspiller 9y ago
I run a small SaaS (aimed at businesses and professional freelancers) application which originally only had GitHub and Facebook authentication. I'm now only giving the option of email for new users, and will eventually remove GitHub and Facebook for all users. For my target demographic third-party authentication was really the wrong choice, but I can see how in some cases it could be useful. Many other parts of the signup flow changed at the same time, so it's hard to measure the impact, but from my side it's much better having an email - I can find out what account someone has when they email me for support, and I can send them account notifications and marketing emails. In one case I had a company email me, as they had forgot how to access their account. The user who emailed didn't have an account in the system, so I had to ask them to forward an email they were receiving from the application, and eventually found they had signed up with an old GitHub account for the company, that was no longer used (after this I added the account name to all emails I sent). I'm also currently evaluating the best way to add PayPal as a lot of my traffic is from countries where credit cards aren't so popular. I currently use Stripe, but am trying to find a service to outsource all billing, to avoid having multiple payment provider implementations. I can see how customers could feel uneasy giving their credit card details to a random website, where as with PayPal you don't have that risk.
- blattimwind 9y ago
  > after this I added the account name to all emails I sent Good takeaway: If you're using $randomThirdPartyAuthentication, then you should make it clear to the user how he's actually authenticated with you (in emails, but also the website, if sessions are long-lived). A few years ago I accumulated a few stackexchange accounts because it wasn't quite clear what SSO was used, so I ended up with one account for each...
nicky0 9y ago
As a user Paypal is much more convenient than entering credit card info. With Paypal One Touch it's usually as little as 2 clicks (one to say pay with Paypal, one to approve).
crispyporkbites 9y ago
roughly 70% of my ecommerce business comes via paypal, we give an option for paypal checkout or credit card at checkout. Average order is about 50 USD, demographics are females from 20-50, mostly in the UK
- yazr 9y ago
  Have u made contingencies for one of these PayPal acount blocking disasters ?! How often do u transfer the money out of the PP ?
  - crispyporkbites 9y ago
    Our business is very legit and customer service is top notch, so it's extremely unlikely, and we are going through shopify as well. Contingency is that we switch to shopify payments and credit cards only and measure topline impact (likely minimal). Rarely leave more than 1k in paypal at a time, we always try to get funds into our real bank.
Glench 9y ago
The insight about PayPal and the replies on this thread backing that insight up are so helpful to know. Definitely going to try using PayPal on any future paid projects I make.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  Yeah it’s kind of like entering a weird world where everyone’s going to start mentioning they still like their trusty old Blackberry. I had no idea. Although, I’m in b2b so that may be that’s why I was caught unaware about the PayPal love. It seems the main use case is for small amounts on less well known b2c sites, at least in this thread.
- jenthoven 9y ago
  This is Julia, the OC. I'm glad it was helpful! I've noticed that international (outside of the US) users especially tend to look for Paypal or alternatives to CC. Something to keep in mind.

yelnatz 9y ago

I'm a sucker for PayPal. Most of the time it's 2-3 clicks when I want to buy something off of a random website, worst case is I have to login again. Compare that to reaching out for your credit card and putting in your info. Plus you'd have to trust them now with your CC data.

literallycancer 9y ago
>Plus you'd have to trust them now with your CC data. This is a failure of the CC provider, not that the customer cares. If you use something like 3D secure, you don't have to worry about the merchant misusing your data.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Don't underestimate laziness; I've given up on buying stuff just to avoid getting up from the couch or bed to get my phone :D It also made purchases with the company CC annoying - couldn't buy anything when the boss was in a meeting.
- romaniv 9y ago
  Last time I read about it, using 3D Secure changed your liability agreement with the credit card provider. Not to mention that its implementation is a confusing mess that bounces you between badly designed websites with questionable security.
mf2hd 9y ago
Exactly this. I just don't want to get up, find my wallet, enter the card number, choose the expiration date from a select, enter the CVV, hit submit, and after all this there is a chance it's not going to work, who knows why, I don't even care. I don't like paypal, but it's really convenient.
- joering2 9y ago
  Is your browser so out of date or you dont like storing your cc info? As much as i remember few years ago chrome asked me already if i want to save the cc card i entered into the form for future use.
  - Kluny 9y ago
    It still won't store the cvc, and plenty of sites do weird idiosyncratic labels on their forms that break the autocomplete.
    - ChristianGeek 9y ago
      I use my credit card online so often that I have the card number, expiration date, and CVC memorized.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
treis 9y ago
With Chrome autocomplete it's even faster to put in my own CC.
tomcam 9y ago
Same here, plus a consistent and searchable email record.

nl 9y ago

I always prefer to use PayPal when it's offered.

kelnage 9y ago

In my experience, all the PayPal horror stories I have seen have been from merchants rather than users. PayPal tends to do a good job of protecting users, often to the detriment of merchants’ trust. Also, PayPal services a niche of users who have bank accounts and/or PayPal credit, but no access to a widely accepted debit or credit card (such as Visa or MasterCard). Those users are often unable to use most other payment providers.

ReverseCold 9y ago
I'd rather pay with PayPal on a small web shop than input my card details. If anything goes wrong it's super easy to get it fixed through PayPal. Stripe doesn't cut it because it's on the merchant's site, so I have no way to tell if it's actually stripe or if they're pretending to be stripe. A lot of small tech-related web shops do take Bitcoin though- so if I think I can trust them (and if Bitcoin is an option) I will use that instead.
- gcb0 9y ago
  that's not praising paypal (or btc:), just picking the lesser of two evils
  - Bizarro 9y ago
    Can you explain your response to his comment. He was just making a statement of preference, and nothing to do with praising anybody. It's just better off not to make the type of comments you made, tying to weave your personal preferences into some else's statement of preference by interjecting some form of relativity of "evilness".
- spookthesunset 9y ago
  > A lot of small tech-related web shops do take Bitcoin though- so if I think I can trust them (and if Bitcoin is an option) I will use that instead. So you will replace a payment method that has a method for recourse when you get fucked with one that is completely irreversible? That doesn't make any sense at all. Even if Paypal or your CC isn't perfect, at least you have some form of recourse. With bitcoin, when you get fucked over, you are completely shit out of luck.

tome 9y ago

> I've read too many PayPal horror stories to trust them, but apparently users like it. Aren't the PayPal horror stories from the vendors not the customers?

thisisit 9y ago

While I have been once on the receiving end of PayPal's wrath, I can see why people prefer it, especially with it's strong buyer protection program. The very first site which I encountered with Stripe, about 3-4 years ago, dint get my money. It just looked odd design for a gateway, I was expecting a "seal" etc on the page with a proclamation about 128-bit encryption and what not. I emailed the website owner to include a "traditional" gateway or PayPal. Since then I have paid with Stripe on some sites but I can also see why people feel uncomfortable with it.

gchadwick 9y ago

Personally I prefer to use PayPal for small sites where offered. Yes there are some PayPal horror stories but I'm generally happy for PayPal to have my credit card details (almost every horror story I've heard has been for sellers not from people using it to pay). Saves me the bother of trying to decide if I actually want to trust a site I've only just encountered with them. I also don't like linking sites to either my google or facebook accounts. If they don't offer email sign-up I'm almost certainly going to go elsewhere unless I really want to use that particular website.

downandout 9y ago

Re: PayPal, the problem is that it is a nightmare for merchants but convenient for many consumers. On the merchant side, it’s only a matter of time before the account gets frozen (at least temporarily) and funds held for up to six months. It’s just what they do, seemingly regardless of chargeback rates or other risk indicators. One other problem with offering PayPal as an option for a technical product/service isn’t as obvious, but is just as important. In my experience, the kind of skeptical user that insists on using PayPal because they don’t trust a given site with their credit card information tends to be more trouble than they are worth. They tend to require far higher levels of customer support than average, and will often eventually request a refund anyway because they have unrealistic expectations of either the product or its support. Also, many PayPal users abuse the deference that company pays to consumers when the consumer initiates even the most absurd dispute, and use the service with an eye toward disputing the charge from the outset. In short, for a technical product/service, those that would insist on PayPal are the PIA (pain in the ass) type customers you should avoid at all costs anyway. If someone emails you asking why you don’t accept PayPal, remind them that all major credit/debit card issuers offer generous $0 fraud liability programs and move on with your life. Don’t go down the PayPal rabbit hole, as you will be sure to regret it in one way or another.

rf15 9y ago
Happy paypal user here; don't like handing out credit card info and never contacted customer support or requested a refund of companies I dealt with. Don't give in to stereotypes so easily and do not call part of your customer base a pia just because they want support for an exceedingly common payment service.
- downandout 9y ago
  I am referring not just to PayPal users, but those that would refuse to pay a given site for a service they need unless they offer PayPal. The combination of being a “difficult” customer along with the risks of using PayPal in general simply make it not worth it to allow those people to become customers. You may be an exception to the rule, but overall it’s simply a losing proposition for the merchant.

jaclaz 9y ago

Personally I wouldn't even think (but specifically it doesn't matter as I don't make/edit videos anyway) of using Google or Facebook access for anything. BUT yes, I would rather prefer to have the Paypal option (again not relevant here) as it is faster/easier than having to input the credit card data and - as I see it - more secure than providing those numbers to a "stranger on the internet". The credit card I have on Paypal is anyway a "rechargeable one" and has more or less at the most US$ 200 credit at any time. And this - conversely - makes any kind of subscription or recurring payment a no-no for me. If I want something, and it is reasonably priced, I buy it, and that's it, everything similar to Saas with monthly fees or similar I try to avoid. I thought I was the exception, being older and grumpier than the average, but from the article it seems like I am not alone.

lucaspiller 9y ago

I run a small SaaS (aimed at businesses and professional freelancers) application which originally only had GitHub and Facebook authentication. I'm now only giving the option of email for new users, and will eventually remove GitHub and Facebook for all users. For my target demographic third-party authentication was really the wrong choice, but I can see how in some cases it could be useful. Many other parts of the signup flow changed at the same time, so it's hard to measure the impact, but from my side it's much better having an email - I can find out what account someone has when they email me for support, and I can send them account notifications and marketing emails. In one case I had a company email me, as they had forgot how to access their account. The user who emailed didn't have an account in the system, so I had to ask them to forward an email they were receiving from the application, and eventually found they had signed up with an old GitHub account for the company, that was no longer used (after this I added the account name to all emails I sent). I'm also currently evaluating the best way to add PayPal as a lot of my traffic is from countries where credit cards aren't so popular. I currently use Stripe, but am trying to find a service to outsource all billing, to avoid having multiple payment provider implementations. I can see how customers could feel uneasy giving their credit card details to a random website, where as with PayPal you don't have that risk.

blattimwind 9y ago
> after this I added the account name to all emails I sent Good takeaway: If you're using $randomThirdPartyAuthentication, then you should make it clear to the user how he's actually authenticated with you (in emails, but also the website, if sessions are long-lived). A few years ago I accumulated a few stackexchange accounts because it wasn't quite clear what SSO was used, so I ended up with one account for each...

nicky0 9y ago

As a user Paypal is much more convenient than entering credit card info. With Paypal One Touch it's usually as little as 2 clicks (one to say pay with Paypal, one to approve).

crispyporkbites 9y ago

roughly 70% of my ecommerce business comes via paypal, we give an option for paypal checkout or credit card at checkout. Average order is about 50 USD, demographics are females from 20-50, mostly in the UK

yazr 9y ago
Have u made contingencies for one of these PayPal acount blocking disasters ?! How often do u transfer the money out of the PP ?
- crispyporkbites 9y ago
  Our business is very legit and customer service is top notch, so it's extremely unlikely, and we are going through shopify as well. Contingency is that we switch to shopify payments and credit cards only and measure topline impact (likely minimal). Rarely leave more than 1k in paypal at a time, we always try to get funds into our real bank.

Glench 9y ago

The insight about PayPal and the replies on this thread backing that insight up are so helpful to know. Definitely going to try using PayPal on any future paid projects I make.

ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
Yeah it’s kind of like entering a weird world where everyone’s going to start mentioning they still like their trusty old Blackberry. I had no idea. Although, I’m in b2b so that may be that’s why I was caught unaware about the PayPal love. It seems the main use case is for small amounts on less well known b2c sites, at least in this thread.
jenthoven 9y ago
This is Julia, the OC. I'm glad it was helpful! I've noticed that international (outside of the US) users especially tend to look for Paypal or alternatives to CC. Something to keep in mind.