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> but that changes are tracked with a data reactivity library reminiscent of knockout called s.js instead Surplus is fast because it doesn't have many features

> but that changes are tracked with a data reactivity library reminiscent of knockout called s.js instead Surplus is fast because it doesn't have many features that available in many other libraries. For example, component model with lifecycles. In this benchmark, "select row" should be the best case scenario for library like this, but even in such scenario it is slower than some vdom libraries.

naasking 9y ago
Lifecycles are only needed because of the vdom, it's not a desirable "feature" since it overcomplicates a conceptually simple process.
- localvoid 9y ago
  Lifecycles has nothing to do with vdom. Even web components has lifecycle hooks https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components/Using_custom_elements#Using_the_lifecycle_callbacks https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components/... Have you tried to build a components library, or have you seen any component libraries that is built on top of a framework that doesn't provide lifecycle hooks for components? Something like https://ant.design/docs/react/introduce https://ant.design/docs/react/introduce or https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/fabric#/components https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/fabric#/components
  - naasking 9y ago
    The term "lifecycle" in web components has a completely different meaning compared to its use in vdom implementations. Compare the semantics of "lifecycle" events in web components against React: https://reactjs.org/docs/react-component.html https://reactjs.org/docs/react-component.html They have virtually nothing in common. Web components are essentially just new DOM events, albeit more restricted. I started this thread by mentioning Surplus, which has no lifecycles because it operates directly on the DOM, and so React's lifecycle callbacks have no use.
    - localvoid 9y ago
      > They have virtually nothing in common. If you think so, then there is really nothing to discuss ;)
- lhorie 9y ago
  Lifecycles are important if you need to do some arbitrary DOM manipulation upon mounting an element to the DOM tree. For example, you may want to render a google map when navigating to some route. "Overcomplication" is in the eye of the beholder. You can't tell your client that his wanting a map in the contact page is "overcomplicating a conceptually simple process". At some point, if a system's restrictions are too strict for the sake of simplicity/beauty/etc, then it ceases to be useful in the real world.

naasking 9y ago

Lifecycles are only needed because of the vdom, it's not a desirable "feature" since it overcomplicates a conceptually simple process.

localvoid 9y ago
Lifecycles has nothing to do with vdom. Even web components has lifecycle hooks https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components/Using_custom_elements#Using_the_lifecycle_callbacks https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components/... Have you tried to build a components library, or have you seen any component libraries that is built on top of a framework that doesn't provide lifecycle hooks for components? Something like https://ant.design/docs/react/introduce https://ant.design/docs/react/introduce or https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/fabric#/components https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/fabric#/components
- naasking 9y ago
  The term "lifecycle" in web components has a completely different meaning compared to its use in vdom implementations. Compare the semantics of "lifecycle" events in web components against React: https://reactjs.org/docs/react-component.html https://reactjs.org/docs/react-component.html They have virtually nothing in common. Web components are essentially just new DOM events, albeit more restricted. I started this thread by mentioning Surplus, which has no lifecycles because it operates directly on the DOM, and so React's lifecycle callbacks have no use.
  - localvoid 9y ago
    > They have virtually nothing in common. If you think so, then there is really nothing to discuss ;)
lhorie 9y ago
Lifecycles are important if you need to do some arbitrary DOM manipulation upon mounting an element to the DOM tree. For example, you may want to render a google map when navigating to some route. "Overcomplication" is in the eye of the beholder. You can't tell your client that his wanting a map in the contact page is "overcomplicating a conceptually simple process". At some point, if a system's restrictions are too strict for the sake of simplicity/beauty/etc, then it ceases to be useful in the real world.