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I think you're on to something here about the indirection. I too have witnessed the uncanny ads, but not even from my own phone (I don't have Facebook on my ph

I think you're on to something here about the indirection. I too have witnessed the uncanny ads, but not even from my own phone (I don't have Facebook on my phone). A friend mentioned a particular restaurant I have never been to, been near, or searched for. I can only assume my friend's conversation was geo-tagged either by my phone (android, no non-system mic access), or the data was combined on the server end to place both of us at the same place / same time, and used his recording to market to me. I'd also like to note, the 'amount of bandwidth needed' is almost nothing by today's standards. Not to mention it can wait to transmit that data until on wifi. 8khz audio (telephone quality) is just kilobytes per second. A reasonably unsophisticated algorithm could trim the audio for an highs and lows (IE, statistically, sound below or above some dB threshold is trimmed because it won't be useful) and uploaded. We're talking about just a few kb per conversation. Of course, the Facebook app is a memory, storage, and cpu hog (IMO), so I don't think it's unreasonable that given today's modern phone hardware some word recognition software may be present on devices themselves.

chemeng 9y ago
I wonder whether there is another mechanism at play. Often when I have conversations with friends, it's likely that either I or they search a term, or have done so recently. Couple that with the social graph and location tracking, and it's very easy for Facebook/Google to target an ad knowing when I interacted with another person and assume that I may have interest in the term that was recently searched by them.
SeanBoocock 9y ago
Or consider another scenario: your friend went to said restaurant and paid for something; read an article about the restaurant; viewed/interacted with an ad for the restaurant; liked a social media post for the restaurant; or was geo-tagged at or around the restaurant. Any of the above would be sufficient to associate your friend and the restaurant, and I'd wager targeting your social graph after you've interacted with a product/service would have a good ROI.
- parthdesai 9y ago
  Alright here's another anecdotal experience. To preface it, i don't have Fb app or messenger on my phone but have WhatsApp and Instagram. I opted out of whatsapp's data sharing policy when you were able to do it. So i was walking with co-workers for coffee and somehow we talked about a college. Now i can assure you that i have never ever searched for that college and i didn't even know it existed before that conversation took place. And 30 mins later, i'm browsing instagram at work and there is an ad of the said college. If this isn't creepy af, i dunno what is.
  - masonlee 9y ago
    College is running an ad campaign, one of your co-workers saw it (consciously or unconsciously) earlier in the day, and that is what lead to the college coming up in conversation?
    - parthdesai 9y ago
      Nah, we were talking about universities (i'm in Canada and almost every uni has an associated college) and topic shifted from that uni to college. Also, let's say what you are saying is true. How come ad decides to show up 30mins - 60 mins after conversation takes place?
      - 3131s 9y ago
        Your friend could have searched for the college before or after your discussion, or maybe even your friend had just been looking up old college friends on Facebook lately and that was enough to match up that ad and you. Not that I wouldn't put it past Facebook to do something like this, but it will be hard to prove from anecdotes because, ironically, Facebook captures so much other data that plausibly could reveal the same connections.
  - dijit27 9y ago
    It might be creepy, but it might not be. It is possible that the conversation influenced the ad shown. But it is also likely that ad would have been shown no matter what the prior conversation was about. If the conversation hadn't included talking about the college prior to seeing the ad it would have been a non-event. But being primed in advance makes it at least feel like a freaky coincidence or at worst nefariously creepy targeted advertising. These kind of events happen by chance and have been happening well before almost everyone started carrying mobile recording devices in their pockets and even pre-internet. I have no doubt that advertisers would love to have that kind of insight but I can't help but feel that the anecdote of the form, we talked about A and A showed up X minutes later, is too easily explain by coincidence. How many topics were discussed, how many ads were shown? When I read something like this I imagine the anecdote should read more along the lines of how we talked about A, B, C, D, E and F and among the dozen or so ads I saw afterwords one of them was topic A! Can you believe it? And yes, yes I can, that is a pretty neat coincidence. On the other hand if out of all 6 of the topics discussed all of the ads that were shown afterward were related to them, maybe not all, but more than one or two. That sounds like there is something fishy going on. I don't mean to single out this particular example, it was to be a simple comment that had more to say. So, thank you for the inspiration!
antiviral 9y ago
You don't need to transmit the audio. Just transcribe to text, remove any common or stop-words (a, an, the) and transmit what's left over in encrypted form to cover their tracks.
giancarlostoro 9y ago
A creepier one is before I proposed to my fiance I would now and then look up rings. One time I literally said "I need to look up some rings again" and went on Instagram not short after and BAM! There it was an advertisement for rings. It's too damn creepy of a coincidence, and I rarely ever believe in coincidences (sure enough more times than not they're not - at least in my experiences). There's been other moments of things I hadn't looked up or bought that I mentioned verbally and damn it, sure enough an ad on Instagram. It's downright witchcraft. Maybe I'll start documenting the phenomena every time it happens, maybe they'll auto take me out of the A/B testing for this by scraping HN. Ok I needa take off my tinfoil hat... Then again, could Google (Android is on my Phone) sell more detailed data to Facebook? I am going to heavily consider finally rooting my phone and installing a ROM on it.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not..... Wedding rings have an EXTREMELY high margin, and almost infinite budget for advertising. If you google rings once, you will continue seeings ads for YEARS, regardless of any conversations you have. Honestly if Facebook knows you are in a relationship for 3+ years and you are under 35, you are going to start seeing ads for engagement rings even without searching for anything. If you really think they are getting you through the microphone, start talking to your phone without anyone around, while browsing Facebook about Baby Diapers, Baby Formula, and Baby Toys. Don't search for anything baby related, and obviously use something else if you are a Father already.
  - giancarlostoro 9y ago
    I'm mostly being a bit over dramatic about it, but I did suspect my mic being snooped on when it did happen, could you blame me / anyone? Hence this article was written. It's very reasonably a coincidence considering how often I would search for rings, but creepy nonetheless. Hadn't seen those ads prior to starting on my search though. My favorite is when you finally buy something and they still show you ads. Like a coworker mentioned, if I buy a refrigerator I don't need another one... I have one house! Come on! Maybe they do it in case you change your mind? Who knows how these ad companies think.
chenning 9y ago
I agree with this. I don't think these companies need to tap your phone to figure out how to choose an Ad for you. They can do an excellent job just knowing that someone is at your house looking up something specific. I suppose one could argue that your privacy is really only worth as much as the person standing next to you values theirs. People just need to understand that their personal privacy decisions really aren't so personal after all.

chemeng 9y ago

I wonder whether there is another mechanism at play. Often when I have conversations with friends, it's likely that either I or they search a term, or have done so recently. Couple that with the social graph and location tracking, and it's very easy for Facebook/Google to target an ad knowing when I interacted with another person and assume that I may have interest in the term that was recently searched by them.

SeanBoocock 9y ago

Or consider another scenario: your friend went to said restaurant and paid for something; read an article about the restaurant; viewed/interacted with an ad for the restaurant; liked a social media post for the restaurant; or was geo-tagged at or around the restaurant. Any of the above would be sufficient to associate your friend and the restaurant, and I'd wager targeting your social graph after you've interacted with a product/service would have a good ROI.

parthdesai 9y ago
Alright here's another anecdotal experience. To preface it, i don't have Fb app or messenger on my phone but have WhatsApp and Instagram. I opted out of whatsapp's data sharing policy when you were able to do it. So i was walking with co-workers for coffee and somehow we talked about a college. Now i can assure you that i have never ever searched for that college and i didn't even know it existed before that conversation took place. And 30 mins later, i'm browsing instagram at work and there is an ad of the said college. If this isn't creepy af, i dunno what is.
- masonlee 9y ago
  College is running an ad campaign, one of your co-workers saw it (consciously or unconsciously) earlier in the day, and that is what lead to the college coming up in conversation?
  - parthdesai 9y ago
    Nah, we were talking about universities (i'm in Canada and almost every uni has an associated college) and topic shifted from that uni to college. Also, let's say what you are saying is true. How come ad decides to show up 30mins - 60 mins after conversation takes place?
    - 3131s 9y ago
      Your friend could have searched for the college before or after your discussion, or maybe even your friend had just been looking up old college friends on Facebook lately and that was enough to match up that ad and you. Not that I wouldn't put it past Facebook to do something like this, but it will be hard to prove from anecdotes because, ironically, Facebook captures so much other data that plausibly could reveal the same connections.
- dijit27 9y ago
  It might be creepy, but it might not be. It is possible that the conversation influenced the ad shown. But it is also likely that ad would have been shown no matter what the prior conversation was about. If the conversation hadn't included talking about the college prior to seeing the ad it would have been a non-event. But being primed in advance makes it at least feel like a freaky coincidence or at worst nefariously creepy targeted advertising. These kind of events happen by chance and have been happening well before almost everyone started carrying mobile recording devices in their pockets and even pre-internet. I have no doubt that advertisers would love to have that kind of insight but I can't help but feel that the anecdote of the form, we talked about A and A showed up X minutes later, is too easily explain by coincidence. How many topics were discussed, how many ads were shown? When I read something like this I imagine the anecdote should read more along the lines of how we talked about A, B, C, D, E and F and among the dozen or so ads I saw afterwords one of them was topic A! Can you believe it? And yes, yes I can, that is a pretty neat coincidence. On the other hand if out of all 6 of the topics discussed all of the ads that were shown afterward were related to them, maybe not all, but more than one or two. That sounds like there is something fishy going on. I don't mean to single out this particular example, it was to be a simple comment that had more to say. So, thank you for the inspiration!

antiviral 9y ago

You don't need to transmit the audio. Just transcribe to text, remove any common or stop-words (a, an, the) and transmit what's left over in encrypted form to cover their tracks.

giancarlostoro 9y ago

A creepier one is before I proposed to my fiance I would now and then look up rings. One time I literally said "I need to look up some rings again" and went on Instagram not short after and BAM! There it was an advertisement for rings. It's too damn creepy of a coincidence, and I rarely ever believe in coincidences (sure enough more times than not they're not - at least in my experiences). There's been other moments of things I hadn't looked up or bought that I mentioned verbally and damn it, sure enough an ad on Instagram. It's downright witchcraft. Maybe I'll start documenting the phenomena every time it happens, maybe they'll auto take me out of the A/B testing for this by scraping HN. Ok I needa take off my tinfoil hat... Then again, could Google (Android is on my Phone) sell more detailed data to Facebook? I am going to heavily consider finally rooting my phone and installing a ROM on it.

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not..... Wedding rings have an EXTREMELY high margin, and almost infinite budget for advertising. If you google rings once, you will continue seeings ads for YEARS, regardless of any conversations you have. Honestly if Facebook knows you are in a relationship for 3+ years and you are under 35, you are going to start seeing ads for engagement rings even without searching for anything. If you really think they are getting you through the microphone, start talking to your phone without anyone around, while browsing Facebook about Baby Diapers, Baby Formula, and Baby Toys. Don't search for anything baby related, and obviously use something else if you are a Father already.
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  I'm mostly being a bit over dramatic about it, but I did suspect my mic being snooped on when it did happen, could you blame me / anyone? Hence this article was written. It's very reasonably a coincidence considering how often I would search for rings, but creepy nonetheless. Hadn't seen those ads prior to starting on my search though. My favorite is when you finally buy something and they still show you ads. Like a coworker mentioned, if I buy a refrigerator I don't need another one... I have one house! Come on! Maybe they do it in case you change your mind? Who knows how these ad companies think.

chenning 9y ago

I agree with this. I don't think these companies need to tap your phone to figure out how to choose an Ad for you. They can do an excellent job just knowing that someone is at your house looking up something specific. I suppose one could argue that your privacy is really only worth as much as the person standing next to you values theirs. People just need to understand that their personal privacy decisions really aren't so personal after all.