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Slack was fine, now it is time to move back to IRC. Some people like slack or telegram because they provide an API for BOTs. Something IRC has been open to sin

Slack was fine, now it is time to move back to IRC. Some people like slack or telegram because they provide an API for BOTs. Something IRC has been open to since the begining. Non power users might have trouble using IRC with the usual clients (mIRC/irssi/bitchx). Today a family member, not technical and 60+yrs asked about "that tool" that is like whatsapp however it allows users that just joined a group to read old messages. He was referring to slack. He wanted to create a group and when new users from his company joined, they would be able to read whatever was written on that group. So with this in mind, i think what would really work (also) is to have something on the front of IRC (some bouncer) with a pretty UI that logs everything and allows new users to connect via mobile, standard irc clients, and also send pictures, and read backlog (stuff slack does). However the backend chat server should be the decentralized existing ones, efnet/freenode/etc. So maybe its time to re-invent slack and make a pretty UI to access usual standard IRC. ie. a new slack that uses old irc networks (decentralized networks) as its backend. But also allows users to talk from mobile apps, browsers, etc

MaxLeiter 9y ago
A few projects exist that try to be "modern" UIs for IRC (bias: I contribute to Lounge) TheLounge - https://thelounge.chat https://thelounge.chat (FOSS, self-hosted) IRCCloud - https://irccloud.com https://irccloud.com (mobile clients OS, hosted)
- merb 9y ago
  they don't look "modern"..
  - amiga-workbench 9y ago
    Yeah, there isn't enough low contrast text and excessive white space.
    - MaxLeiter 9y ago
      TheLounge has full support for themes and custom CSS on the client
  - mynameisvlad 9y ago
    Did you actually look at them? The Lounge looks like a less image-heavy Slack. It's definitely following most modern design trends like flat UIs. At the very least it looks and feels far more modern than, for instance, mIRC.
  - dabernathy89 9y ago
    I just played with The Lounge a bit and it actually looks really nice.
- freddie_mercury 9y ago
  No way to edit a message I've already sent. I'll stick with Slack.
  - tomsmeding 9y ago
    You can't do that in IRC at all, so it would be impossible for a UI to offer that feature. ;)
    - buovjaga 9y ago
      It's on the horizon, though: https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/304 https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/304
    - freddie_mercury 9y ago
      It is almost seems like you are saying there are technical reasons for them dropping IRC....
- lorenzhs 9y ago
  Let me add Glowing Bear, a project I contribute to that builds on top of WeeChat: https://github.com/glowing-bear/glowing-bear https://github.com/glowing-bear/glowing-bear
zaphar 9y ago
You just described the Matrix riot client: * https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/ * https://riot.im/ https://riot.im/
- jmagoon 9y ago
  Love matrix, but the OP just described the big adoption problem. Non-programmer wants to set it up for his company. How do you do that with a matrix server? Slack makes it pretty damn easy for non-techies to get set up and invite people. Matrix currently does not do that.
  - edaemon 9y ago
    Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but with Riot.im you can just sign in, create a room, and then invite people to that room. It gets a bit more complex if you want to run your own server, but that's not something you can do at all with Slack.
    - jmagoon 9y ago
      It's very possible I'm misunderstanding as well, but when you create a room on the Matrix homeserver, the only option you have is to make it so users on another homeserver cannot join that room, which means your only security is other matrix users not knowing your room name. For a small corporate team that wants to pilot a chat program, like in the original comment, the gulf between Slack setting up your own private workspace with a few clicks and a room that has all of your chat history exposed to any user that knows the room name is pretty large. I would love to see riot or matrix give you a few click options to have them host your own private matrix server, as that's a big obstacle for corporate customers who don't have the resources (human) to spin up their own servers (domains, adding ssl certs, adding nginx, etc.) just for trialing a chat program.
      - Arathorn 9y ago
        This is indeed a massive misunderstanding: rooms in Matrix can either be publicly joinable by default or be invite-only (just like in IRC). There's also a separate question of whether a room is locked to a given server (i.e. made unfederatable), but this is an extreme measure taken if you know the room will contain stuff you never want to ever leave that server. You can now also create communities to group your company/project's rooms together even if you're primarily using someone else's homeserver. Separately: we're working on providing a "one-click" homeserver hosting option with a free trial precisely of the kind you're asking for.
nopacience 9y ago
Besides that, if slack had IRC enabled and e2e you would be able to connect via IRC and actually verify that e2e is doing its job (ie. connect via irc and see scrambled texts). One problem with all these closed client apps slack (with this update)/whatsapp/telegram is that there is no way to verify/audit it is actually doing proper e2e. Users must trust the X company that they are really doing proper e2e. These apps should allow users to download a plugin and use that to produce the e2e. Then the user would be able to download an open sourced audited plugin that encrypts the messages before they hit the whatsapp/slack/telegram company servers. So for instance, if this was possible, everyone on a group would download and install the plugin that runs on top of whatsapp/slack/telegram and share an encryption key that only they know about. And do the same for conversations between 2 people. There must be some point of trust, however with the current situation, it is hard to trust e2e code no one is able to audit. Or just open the protocol so everyone can use and create their own clients and their own e2e mechanisms. Which is what IRC is.
- jhasse 9y ago
  Telegram's client is open-source.
  - zaarn 9y ago
    Telegram's E2E is also crap and shouldn't be used[0] 0: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/49802 https://security.stackexchange.com/a/49802
gray_-_wolf 9y ago
is it true what I've heard about irc and how it completely ignores stuff like encoding?
Kudos 9y ago
The two things IRC is actually missing for most people is push notifications and "offline" history. Yes you can get these if you run your own bouncer, or whatever, but it's not native to the technology. I think Matrix is ahead of IRC for solving both of those issues.
- mixedmath 9y ago
  IRC is the protocol. There are myriad services which use the IRC protocol. Some of these do include push notifications and offline history, such as irccloud (and others). The freedom to choose is one of the reasons people wish slack would open source their protocol.
sgloutnikov 9y ago
Some have already mentioned similar clients, but also check out Convos[1]. Recently I had a very similar need for what you described and stumbled upon it. [1] https://convos.by/ https://convos.by/
jest3r1 9y ago
Non power users might have trouble using IRC with the usual clients (mIRC/irssi/bitchx). I've never used Slack but these name drops are all familiar. Back in the good 'oldays of Eggdrop? It's amazing that Slack was "backwards" compatible with IRC for so long. But honestly, their API is mature. No need to be backwards compatible. Easier to sell when you are in control of access and client.
mikro2nd 9y ago
It has ALWAYS been time to move back to IRC! (Arghh... I'll probably be downvoted to hell for a flippant, drive-by comment, but what the fuck... We all know that HN hates comedy.)

MaxLeiter 9y ago

A few projects exist that try to be "modern" UIs for IRC (bias: I contribute to Lounge) TheLounge - https://thelounge.chat https://thelounge.chat (FOSS, self-hosted) IRCCloud - https://irccloud.com https://irccloud.com (mobile clients OS, hosted)

merb 9y ago
they don't look "modern"..
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  Yeah, there isn't enough low contrast text and excessive white space.
  - MaxLeiter 9y ago
    TheLounge has full support for themes and custom CSS on the client
- mynameisvlad 9y ago
  Did you actually look at them? The Lounge looks like a less image-heavy Slack. It's definitely following most modern design trends like flat UIs. At the very least it looks and feels far more modern than, for instance, mIRC.
- dabernathy89 9y ago
  I just played with The Lounge a bit and it actually looks really nice.
freddie_mercury 9y ago
No way to edit a message I've already sent. I'll stick with Slack.
- tomsmeding 9y ago
  You can't do that in IRC at all, so it would be impossible for a UI to offer that feature. ;)
  - buovjaga 9y ago
    It's on the horizon, though: https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/304 https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/304
  - freddie_mercury 9y ago
    It is almost seems like you are saying there are technical reasons for them dropping IRC....
lorenzhs 9y ago
Let me add Glowing Bear, a project I contribute to that builds on top of WeeChat: https://github.com/glowing-bear/glowing-bear https://github.com/glowing-bear/glowing-bear

zaphar 9y ago

You just described the Matrix riot client: * https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/ * https://riot.im/ https://riot.im/

jmagoon 9y ago
Love matrix, but the OP just described the big adoption problem. Non-programmer wants to set it up for his company. How do you do that with a matrix server? Slack makes it pretty damn easy for non-techies to get set up and invite people. Matrix currently does not do that.
- edaemon 9y ago
  Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but with Riot.im you can just sign in, create a room, and then invite people to that room. It gets a bit more complex if you want to run your own server, but that's not something you can do at all with Slack.
  - jmagoon 9y ago
    It's very possible I'm misunderstanding as well, but when you create a room on the Matrix homeserver, the only option you have is to make it so users on another homeserver cannot join that room, which means your only security is other matrix users not knowing your room name. For a small corporate team that wants to pilot a chat program, like in the original comment, the gulf between Slack setting up your own private workspace with a few clicks and a room that has all of your chat history exposed to any user that knows the room name is pretty large. I would love to see riot or matrix give you a few click options to have them host your own private matrix server, as that's a big obstacle for corporate customers who don't have the resources (human) to spin up their own servers (domains, adding ssl certs, adding nginx, etc.) just for trialing a chat program.
    - Arathorn 9y ago
      This is indeed a massive misunderstanding: rooms in Matrix can either be publicly joinable by default or be invite-only (just like in IRC). There's also a separate question of whether a room is locked to a given server (i.e. made unfederatable), but this is an extreme measure taken if you know the room will contain stuff you never want to ever leave that server. You can now also create communities to group your company/project's rooms together even if you're primarily using someone else's homeserver. Separately: we're working on providing a "one-click" homeserver hosting option with a free trial precisely of the kind you're asking for.

nopacience 9y ago

Besides that, if slack had IRC enabled and e2e you would be able to connect via IRC and actually verify that e2e is doing its job (ie. connect via irc and see scrambled texts). One problem with all these closed client apps slack (with this update)/whatsapp/telegram is that there is no way to verify/audit it is actually doing proper e2e. Users must trust the X company that they are really doing proper e2e. These apps should allow users to download a plugin and use that to produce the e2e. Then the user would be able to download an open sourced audited plugin that encrypts the messages before they hit the whatsapp/slack/telegram company servers. So for instance, if this was possible, everyone on a group would download and install the plugin that runs on top of whatsapp/slack/telegram and share an encryption key that only they know about. And do the same for conversations between 2 people. There must be some point of trust, however with the current situation, it is hard to trust e2e code no one is able to audit. Or just open the protocol so everyone can use and create their own clients and their own e2e mechanisms. Which is what IRC is.

jhasse 9y ago
Telegram's client is open-source.
- zaarn 9y ago
  Telegram's E2E is also crap and shouldn't be used[0] 0: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/49802 https://security.stackexchange.com/a/49802

gray_-_wolf 9y ago

is it true what I've heard about irc and how it completely ignores stuff like encoding?

Kudos 9y ago

The two things IRC is actually missing for most people is push notifications and "offline" history. Yes you can get these if you run your own bouncer, or whatever, but it's not native to the technology. I think Matrix is ahead of IRC for solving both of those issues.

mixedmath 9y ago
IRC is the protocol. There are myriad services which use the IRC protocol. Some of these do include push notifications and offline history, such as irccloud (and others). The freedom to choose is one of the reasons people wish slack would open source their protocol.

sgloutnikov 9y ago

Some have already mentioned similar clients, but also check out Convos[1]. Recently I had a very similar need for what you described and stumbled upon it. [1] https://convos.by/ https://convos.by/

jest3r1 9y ago

Non power users might have trouble using IRC with the usual clients (mIRC/irssi/bitchx). I've never used Slack but these name drops are all familiar. Back in the good 'oldays of Eggdrop? It's amazing that Slack was "backwards" compatible with IRC for so long. But honestly, their API is mature. No need to be backwards compatible. Easier to sell when you are in control of access and client.

mikro2nd 9y ago

It has ALWAYS been time to move back to IRC! (Arghh... I'll probably be downvoted to hell for a flippant, drive-by comment, but what the fuck... We all know that HN hates comedy.)