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Of course they do. This is exactly the path Google took. Once you achieve enough power in the market, you can throw open protocols overboard. It's a symptom of
by pc2g4d 9y ago
Of course they do. This is exactly the path Google took. Once you achieve enough power in the market, you can throw open protocols overboard.
It's a symptom of the centralized world the internet has become.
- elektron 9y agoCompanies are just using Micro$oft's playbook. Oh, and spoiler alert, Microsoft still is too: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Microsoft/Windows/SubsystemForLinux https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Microsoft/Windows... Embrace / Extend / Expunge
- saagarjha 9y agoYou post implies that you're officially affiliated with Slack. If so, are you really comparing yourself to "Micro[s]oft's playbook"? Why can't you work to fix the issue rather than follow the industry standard?
- mynameisvlad 9y agoSo how exactly do you expect running Debian/other Linuxes on Windows will extinguish them? I don't really see a way for that to happen. Sure, the Linux subsystem is "Embrace", but a lot of things can be embraced without extended or extinguished.
- newnewpdro 9y agoAn obvious way this can harm Linux is by giving junior users coming from a windows environment a way to do much of the things GNU/Linux can do - even if it's potentially inferior (would they even know?) - without actually becoming a user of anything running the Linux kernel. Do you expect the Linux kernel to continue being runnable on contemporary laptops if decreasing numbers of users are even attempting to boot it? The same thing happens with Docker on Windows in the datacenter. If users embrace the MS offering, and it runs their Linux containers, there will be less resources going into Linux kernel development from the server world. Google going the fuscia/zircon or whatever it's called now route further diminishes the resources put into the Linux kernel. I don't think there's any reason to reject the observation that there's a lot of competition in this space and a number of these moves substantially threaten Linux's relevance in the long-term. The exodus of users to OSX has already been quite harmful to GNU/Linux's progress on the desktop. If it weren't for Intel investing so heavily in Linux kernel development I don't think we'd have modern wifi or gpu support, not from the community alone. Much of what I describe above is the Embrace phase. Once a sufficient number of users are running their Linux userspace components on proprietary underlying kernels, the relevant companies can start investing in "improving" userspace in incompatible ways only their kernels implement - perhaps in patent-protected ways - Extend. Voila, you're locked in. And since the Linux kernel wouldn't have the development resources it once had, it just falls behind into obsolescence.
- tjwds 9y agoYeah, I don't want to be a downer, but this is pretty much the exact definition of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- haroldp 9y agoGoogle is the new Microsoft. We all need to get comfortable with this idea, and fast.
- dsschnau 9y agoi thought it was old news that google isn't cool any more
- jonursenbach 9y agoDid Slack ever really embrace and extend IRC and XMPP though? It always seemed to be some kind of hack to get your messages there to begin with.
- dfabulich 9y agoThe IRC gateway was there to mollify people who said "IRC is better! I refuse to switch!" Slack advocates could say, "Don't worry, you don't have to switch. You can just keep using your IRC client with Slack. Everybody else will have a web UI, which they prefer, and you can keep using Irssi. Everybody wins."
- s_dev 9y agoMy understanding was Google supported XMPP until a few companies including Microsoft only allowed their integrations one way and then abandoned it as they felt they were opening themselves up to being exploited rather than pushing an open standard.
- omeid2 9y agoThey could have made two-way integrations mandatory and block organizations who did not comply.
- themacguffinman 9y agoRight, so eventually they'd block every major organization and then it's practically the same as abandoning XMPP federation. Commercial incentives just don't align with XMPP, that's the underlying problem.
- omeid2 9y agoHow would that explain Email?
- ForHackernews 9y agoEmail could never come into existence today. It only survives as a difficult-to-dislodge remnant of an earlier, more open, more idealistic Internet. Loads of companies (including Facebook and Google) are trying to "fix" (read: kill) your email inbox.
- BarkMore 9y agoXMPP support did very little to grow whatever power Google has in the chat market. Traffic to federated services and use of third party clients was low.
- xiphias 9y agoMaybe the number of clients were low, but they were the early adopters that the small companies need, but big companies hate (as early adopters have very different requirements).
- cma 9y agoIt really sucks. Apple did the same: https://www.appleworld.today/blog/2016/8/8/hey-apple-any-progress-on-making-facetime-an-open-industry-standard https://www.appleworld.today/blog/2016/8/8/hey-apple-any-pro...
- xenadu02 9y agoIt was not Apple's choice. You should do some reading on the topic.